Comments on Brushless Motors

[mb3195]

Hi Everyone,

I have just moved over to a Brushless system (Not the Novak!). I absolutely love mine, loads faster than my V2, no skimming, no maintenance, nothing but racing!!! :D

I was just wondering what everyone else's thoughts were? I think its definately the way forward and really gives us club racers a chance against the sponsored boys!

Mark

[studysession]

What BL system did you get?

[mb3195]

I've got a Schulze system and a Hacker motor....it is awesome!

[studysession]

I used to have a Schulze 18.61k and blew it up. I think it was a nice setup. My gearing was to tall for the thing is what made it blow up.

What car do you have it in?

[mb3195]

I've got the Schulze Competition Pro 75, seems to be able to take loads of abuse! Better than my Mtroniks Cirrus, had two of them in two months, both blew up for no reason! :mad: Hence the reason I took the decision to run a BL.

I race a TC3 and PRO4, I cant describe how good it is! Ran it on the GPS and got over 45mph and 7 minutes of out my battery! What brushed motor can boast that?

Its also super smooth, feels exactly the same to drive as my Cirrus and V2 did! I'd recommend these to anyone! :D

[studysession]

Very cool! What Hacker motor do you have?

Also do you have alink for the specs on that ESC? I did a google search and did not come up with it.

[mb3195]

I've got a Hacker 8T but have just ordered a 7T aswell! Cant wait to see that go - its supposed to be 15% faster! :eek:

Sorry, its a Schulze U-Force 75, the attached link should give you details!

The good thing about the speedo is that you can use normal brushed motors if you wanted aswell (not that I'd see the point! ;) )

www.schulze-elektronik-gmbh.com/ufo-e.htm

[Garry]

How much is that U-Force 75?

[mb3195]

Should be £235 but managed to get the motor and speed controller for £300 as a deal. Got it from Gordon Tarling, the only problem is it takes over a month to arrive! :(

[Joost van Leeuwen]

I race a TC3 and PRO4, I cant describe how good it is! Ran it on the GPS and got over 45mph and 7 minutes of out my battery! What brushed motor can boast that?


Don't know about the gearing you are using, but a good 19T will do that as well.

[studysession]

Nice! :) Let us know what you think of the 7T when it arrive.

[mb3195]

Don't know about the gearing you are using, but a good 19T will do that as well.

What 19T are you using? My Peak 12x2 V2 would do the speed but nowhere near the duration!

Did I also mention that the accelaration and braking were unbelievable? Trust me, I've been racing for 18 years and I have never been as impressed with a motor or speed controller as this one!!

[Joost van Leeuwen]

What 19T are you using? My Peak 12x2 V2 would do the speed but nowhere near the duration!

Did I also mention that the accelaration and braking were unbelievable? Trust me, I've been racing for 18 years and I have never been as impressed with a motor or speed controller as this one!!

That's why I said I don't know the gearing of your car, maybe it accelerates like crazy meaning it can go a lot faster.

The V2 is a "spec" motor, all good 19T's are modifieds thus they are faster and more efficient.

Too bad it is so expensive otherwise I would get one as well.
(note, if you don't buy a top off the line ESC for brushed motors it isn't really expensive either)

[mb3195]

That's why I said I don't know the gearing of your car, maybe it accelerates like crazy meaning it can go a lot faster.

The V2 is a "spec" motor, all good 19T's are modifieds thus they are faster and more efficient.

Too bad it is so expensive otherwise I would get one as well.
(note, if you don't buy a top off the line ESC for brushed motors it isn't really expensive either)

I agree that the intial lay out is expensive, but then what? No brushes, no comm lathes, no replacement motors, etc, etc.

As soon as I tried my brushless for the first time, the next thing I did was sell my lathe, speed controller and motors, it paid for it and I had money left over!

[studysession]

I agree - Brushless is a lot nicer. I run brushless in all my electrics.

What electric R/C's I have brushless installed:
TC3
Colt10
Micro RS4
Traxxas bandit

[col7104]

Hi all,

Heres a thought for you all that im surprised no one else has voiced. I am happy to see brushless here, seeing technology progress, and having owned one by Novak, have seen their no maintenance advantages (even though i had to return mine for overheating reasons).
Don't any of you think that this is sapping fun from this sport? However nice no maintenance may be, i still like putting time into skimming, and cleaning and tinkering with brushed motors. Its rewarding to see your hardwork pay off on track, and its how top racers stay on edge. With no maintenance, any halfwit (no offence to anyone
) can go into the sport and race, and be competitive every time, but i think that racing is all about preperation and maintenance, thats what keeps the car going fast. Doesn't anyone agree that without maintaining, this would be making it very boring??

[studysession]

I don't find it boring at all. Gives me more time to play with my CNC mill to make new parts for my cars. :D And then test the new stuff and try them out and see how they work.

I also test brushless ESC's and things for a local company who manufactures them. I have a lot of fun with the brushless products myself. JMO :)

[Garry]

Hi all,

Heres a thought for you all that im surprised no one else has voiced. I am happy to see brushless here, seeing technology progress, and having owned one by Novak, have seen their no maintenance advantages (even though i had to return mine for overheating reasons).
Don't any of you think that this is sapping fun from this sport? However nice no maintenance may be, i still like putting time into skimming, and cleaning and tinkering with brushed motors. Its rewarding to see your hardwork pay off on track, and its how top racers stay on edge. With no maintenance, any halfwit (no offence to anyone
) can go into the sport and race, and be competitive every time, but i think that racing is all about preperation and maintenance, thats what keeps the car going fast. Doesn't anyone agree that without maintaining, this would be making it very boring??

Not really. Personally, I hate the idea to having to tune my motors, and get the absolute best from it just to keep up with the guy standing next to me on the rostrum. Anything that gets rid of motor prep is a good thing in my opinion.

[mb3195]

Hi all,

Heres a thought for you all that im surprised no one else has voiced. I am happy to see brushless here, seeing technology progress, and having owned one by Novak, have seen their no maintenance advantages (even though i had to return mine for overheating reasons).
Don't any of you think that this is sapping fun from this sport? However nice no maintenance may be, i still like putting time into skimming, and cleaning and tinkering with brushed motors. Its rewarding to see your hardwork pay off on track, and its how top racers stay on edge. With no maintenance, any halfwit (no offence to anyone
) can go into the sport and race, and be competitive every time, but i think that racing is all about preperation and maintenance, thats what keeps the car going fast. Doesn't anyone agree that without maintaining, this would be making it very boring??

I thought the fun bit about racing was, correct me if I'm wrong but.......RACING!

I went to Bedworth on Sunday, just for a bit of a test session and was able to run 8 batteries, with only a 5 mninute gap between runs and not even think about touching my motor!

Surely, the more time you get to spend on the track, the better! and not only that, there are plenty of other things that can be done to your car to keep you busy!

And saying any halfwit can go out and race, I dont really understand where your coming from, they still need to get the car set up and again, surely the more people who race, the better for the sport!

And finally.....it evens up the playing field, just look at how popular the stock rounds are because they are even......brushless will be just as even but alot faster!

[Garry]

Thats perfect, as thats what stock drivers want - more power!

The price just needs to come down a bit now.

[mb3195]

Garry, go back to one of my earlier posts, agreed it is initially a little expensive, but only the outlay! Take the cost of a modified motor (£52), a top spec esc (at least £125) and a motor lathe (£150) and what's more expensive?

The brushless system at £300!

[studysession]

I think the Novak is reasonable price -

I just bought a Mamba 25 ESC and the Mamba 8000kv motor for my Micro RS4 as a combo together and paid 135 american dollars. I think that is reasonable too.

[skelsey]

Hi all,

Heres a thought for you all that im surprised no one else has voiced. I am happy to see brushless here, seeing technology progress, and having owned one by Novak, have seen their no maintenance advantages (even though i had to return mine for overheating reasons).
Don't any of you think that this is sapping fun from this sport? However nice no maintenance may be, i still like putting time into skimming, and cleaning and tinkering with brushed motors. Its rewarding to see your hardwork pay off on track, and its how top racers stay on edge. With no maintenance, any halfwit (no offence to anyone
) can go into the sport and race, and be competitive every time, but i think that racing is all about preperation and maintenance, thats what keeps the car going fast. Doesn't anyone agree that without maintaining, this would be making it very boring??

Nope.

Sorry Colin. I see where you're coming from, but there is so much more to tinker with. Tyres, suspension, weight distribution, gearing and just about everything else on the car are just as important, if not more important than the motor when it comes to winning races.

To understand all the above and utilise that knowledge to get the best out of your car takes a little more than a "halfwit".

If you think you can win races (or even be competitive) just by putting the fastest motor available in the car, you need to think again... even before you have the setup issue, there is the matter of driver skill.

Ultimately, that's what this sport should be about. There is room for an "unlimited" class, for sure; we all want to see cars go as fast as possible, but there is also a need for the control classes, particularly at the lower levels. And in a control class, driver skill and setup is everything. The motor has very little to do with it.

Even if what you said was true, surely anything that encourages people to enter the sport, and stay in it (by being competitive), is a good thing?

Simon

[peejay]

Garry, go back to one of my earlier posts, agreed it is initially a little expensive, but only the outlay! Take the cost of a modified motor (£52), a top spec esc (at least £125) and a motor lathe (£150) and what's more expensive?

The brushless system at £300!

Did you mean the brushless at £300 is cheaper? I hope so :D

[Garry]

The thing is, the brushless may be cheaper but thats £300 in one lump amount. I doubt many people buy a brand new top of the range ESC AND a modified motor AND a lathe in one go (BTW they were top prices - most people at my club get 27t stocks for £30 and second hand lathes etc).

It may be cheaper in the long run, but the fact that its a lump £300 amount puts me and I expect many others off too.

[Joost van Leeuwen]

And if you participate in races you will need a brushed _and_ a brushless system :eek:

[mb3195]

And if you participate in races you will need a brushed _and_ a brushless system :eek:

Why? You can race brushless in the modified brushed class!

[Joost van Leeuwen]

Why? You can race brushless in the modified brushed class!

You are assuming there is one. Most clubs won't have a class like that and our national races sure don't.

Or is the situation in your country so much different?

[mb3195]

You are assuming there is one. Most clubs won't have a class like that and our national races sure don't.

Or is the situation in your country so much different?


Brushless is classed as a modified in many of the events here. All club meetings allow brushless into the modified races.

[Genem]

Even though you may not need to skim and tune a brushless motor, the performance of a well-tuned Team Orion Revolution 7-turn motor is still quicker than a brushless.

[Garry]

But to get the speed from that 7t, I bet you need to skim and change the brushes every couple of runs, and tweak and tune the motor to 100% of its capacity. Brushless doesn't need that sort of work - thats why its so good.

[studysession]

I agree with gary. That is why I like them.

[mb3195]

Even though you may not need to skim and tune a brushless motor, the performance of a well-tuned Team Orion Revolution 7-turn motor is still quicker than a brushless.

I'd have to disagree with you here!

I currently run an 8 turn brushless and it is by far quicker than any 12 turn modified I have ever driven! But you can go as low as a 6 turn, which generates about another 25-30% more rpm per volt. I'm sure this would compare favourably to a modified 7T.

On my TC3 with my 8T, I ran a 27t pinion on a 72 spur and got over 45mph on my gps. I could easily gear up another 2-3 pinions, but whats the point....top speed isn't that important anyway!

I'm not saying that a 12T modified will be slower on top end, but its the acceleration and braking where you really notice the advantage, they are both instant! And thats forgetting about the extra 20% duration I'm now getting from my batteries!

The problem with brushless motors is that not many people have seen a decent one! The Novak SS is only a 1st generation sensored system. Mine is a 4th generation sensorless system. The technology is about 3-4 years in advance of the Novak. Trust me, when people start seeing the full potential of these, only sponsored drivers who have no choice but to use what they are given will be using brushed motors!

I've got a 7T on order aswell......cant wait to try it! ;)

[studysession]

Well, I have not been able to try it yet because I got sick over the weekend. But I just got my new brushless ESC friday from MTroniks. So I am back in business. :D

Anyone ever asks me which is better - I always tell them brushless because don't have all the extra work that goes with the brushed systems. To me I just prefer it. :cool:

[mb3195]

Well, I have not been able to try it yet because I got sick over the weekend. But I just got my new brushless ESC friday from MTroniks. So I am back in business. :D

Anyone ever asks me which is better - I always tell them brushless because don't have all the extra work that goes with the brushed systems. To me I just prefer it. :cool:

You'll have to let me know what its like mate.

[studysession]

Will do. I am feeling better now. So between tonight and tomorrow I will have my car back together. Will be running it very soon I hope. :D

[studysession]

I ran the new brushless car version ESC from MTroniks last night. This thing rocks! I am very happy with it.

Trying to pull my gear adaptor off my motor to try it in another car. (Colt10) Having trouble getting the adaptor off. Last night I used it in my TC3. I am running an AXI brushless motor right now. It has more low end torque than my Lehner.

:D Hopefully have more details about it as I get it into the Colt10. Cant get off the adapter yet. until then I am stuck again.

[kufman]

I have to agree with mb3195, Schulze, Lehner, Hacker, and Kontronik sensorless systems are way ahead of novak. They are more expensive, but the power is beyond any brushed motor I have ever seen. Run after run of consistant performance. I run a Schulze U-Force 75 with a Lehner basic 4200 motor and it easliy keeps up with 12 turn motors. Geared correctly it keeps up with 9 and 10 turn motors. At the 12 turn gearing I can get almost 12 minutes of full power running in my TC3. I am interested in getting either a Hacker C40-8S or a Lehner Basic 5300 as my next motor. The 4200 is great for indoors, but I have a large outdoor track in my area and a little more top end would be great. I have also run my Schulze with an Aveox RC7 motor. This setup comes off the line as smooth as a sensored system and has a ton of bottom end torque. Unfortunately, the good brushless systems may not get popular here in the states since novak has gotten their ideas written into the ROAR rules for a brushless class. The rules will basically disallow everything except the novak. No split winds (hacker, lehner, kontronik), no delta wound motors (hacker, lehner, kontronik), and other rules that are pretty darn exclusive to the good systems. Hopefully things work out better in other countries. :D

[studysession]

Has anyone here used the BK Electronics controllers?