TEAM Corally-SP12M-Chat Thread. [Archive]

rice98w

08-07-2003, 03:50 PM

actually, andy sawyer used an assocaited rear dampner unit, like he always has done on his corally's.

the person who used the standard unit was robin hammet and keith robertson.

i personally find the corally dampner harder to adjust than the trinity style, as with the corally dampner, you cant independantly control the front-back dampning withut altering the side to side dampning. personally i think these should be controlled independatnly like on the trinity, calandra and the new corally rear end.

if i had a corally, i would splash out and buy the new rear end option, every corally driver used it at the cleveland US champs so its got to be good. and i thought that griff's car looked like the best corally as season.

only problem is the expense, its a shame like steve said that they dont bring out another sp12m, as it seems a bit of a rip off to market a "new" car (the 12m) and then sell an option kit for it. i know that the new kit is not NEEDED, but i still think it should be different to how it is.

matt rice

MikeS

08-07-2003, 04:32 PM

I am a bit confused here, please can someone tell me where we (ModelTech) have said that the new tube/side-damper conversion kit is best used for ashphalt only?

rice98w

08-07-2003, 04:35 PM

lol, well a certain someone told me.... lol, i guess its not correct then. i was told that "mike was marketing it as an asphault option"

my post will be ammended accordingly, sorry mike.

matt rice

MikeS

08-07-2003, 04:41 PM

No problem Matt, just a case of innacurate hearsay! We have never said that as it just isn't the case.
What we have said is that it is not quite so easy to set-up (compared to the centre pod) and generally requires more maintenance, to retain handling consistancy, than the centre pod system, not something a new person to 1/12th needs. However, when set-up correctly can be faster.

rice98w

08-07-2003, 04:47 PM

i totally agree with the last post, it does reguire more maintenence, as it has 3 elements, as apposed to one. but to a die hard 12th scaler, that wont make a difference as it probably gets taken apart after every race meeting anyway.

matt rice

B_Final_Bob

08-07-2003, 05:42 PM

hang on... now i'm confused ??? ??? ???

You have a thread devoted to Corally cars on racechat, what's the point in making a website?

marcoski

08-07-2003, 05:47 PM

I think Steven meant to say thread or zone :)

Mark Stiles

08-07-2003, 05:51 PM

Why don't corally just give buyers an option. So you could buy a kit with the normal damper unit, or a kit with just the shock arrangement rear end. There can't be much difference in manufacturing costs. After all, it's been done in other classes. For example, you can buy a TC3 in racer, team or factory team format.

Glenn Atterton

08-07-2003, 09:35 PM

its a bit exspensive.

Look at what you get, for your £**,

4-cell Chassis 'Cells Backwards' Graphite.
T-Bar Connector with tweak adjuster position, Graphite.
Tweak Adjuster, Graphite (use with 74857).
Damper-plate with Tube-damper positions, Graphite.
Radio-tray with Tube Damper positions, Graphite.
Shock Absorber kit.
Tube Damper Kit Single (2 kits req'd per car).
Motorpod Special 'Tube Dampers'

Almost a full chassis. Looks like all you would need to do is swap over the front suspension, battery trays from one to the other plus your electrics. This could be easily done at nationals given the time between heats.

steven bough

08-07-2003, 09:49 PM

Thanks Marcus ;)

The new side damper's how do they work -do you fill them with shock oil ? etc

Steve
8)

MattW

08-07-2003, 10:11 PM

Don't think you get the chassis with the conversion.

rice98w

09-07-2003, 08:50 AM

steve- you put about 30wt oil in the centre shock, and either diff grease or 80-100wt shock oil in the sides. it hardly requires any shock oil though, and can be a bit messy! :D

mattw- the chassis is listed as a part for the conversion on www.corally.co.uk but wether or not its included is a different matter

hope that helps
matt rice

Glenn Atterton

09-07-2003, 09:45 AM

Don't think you get the chassis with the conversion.

Your right :-[. It's the way it's laid out on the UK importers site. Checked makers site, news section and it say's the following,

New CORALLY SP12M SPECIAL,
Tube-Damper Conversion Kit Includes:

New SP12M Damperplate with tube-damper positions, Graphite
New SP12M Radiotray with tube-damper positions, Graphite
New SP12M Shock Absorber Kit
New SP12M Tube Damper Kit (1 Pc - 2 Required per car)
New SP12M Motorpod
Optional:
New SP12M Chassis (4 Cell), Graphite 'Cells Backwards'
New SP12M T-Bar Connector with tweak adjuster position, Graphite
New SP12M Tweak Adjuster, Graphite (use with 74857)

That makes it a little expensive for what you get. Had those in options been included then I would have to say price would seem OK.

Glenn Atterton

09-07-2003, 09:53 AM

"Well Come to Corally Chat"

Have a look in news section on makers site. There's a link to a Corally Product & Tech Forum or use this link www.rctech.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=1872ef7073278346a82cc0b8aae8a62 8&forumid=67 (http://www.rctech.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=1872ef7073278346a82cc0b8aae8a62 8&forumid=67)

MikeS

09-07-2003, 10:23 AM

I do apologise for the confusion our original information has caused.
The details were posted prior to the kits being finalised and the conversion kit details had not been decided on at that time by the factory.
I have updated our information and changed the information layout so it is now clearly indicated what comes in the #00050 side-pod/damper conversion kit.

Once again, I am sorry for the confusion.

steven bough

09-07-2003, 11:39 PM

i also noticed Andy Griff was using tweak screws-i was thinking if using the option kit do we need to use the tweak screw's again-has last year people were saying-if you use the (6-cell Anti flex bar)then don't use the tweak screws!

& is it neaded if using the new option rear end
#
Regard's

Ste
8)

alien

12-09-2003, 05:02 PM

I'm just starting with a SP12M and the track surface I run on is carpet. I don't have any graphite parts, I just have the basic kit. I purchased purple fronts tires, X-hard, and hard front springs. Does anyone have any setups tips for what I have to work with. Also, where should I start gearing a 10-3 w/GP3300 and should I worry about tweak screws?
Thank You

KRob

12-09-2003, 07:00 PM

Hi alien,
Not having the graphite parts is not a problem, the standard car is plenty good enough.
I personally would go with the hard front springs rather than the eXtra hard.
You say you have purple fronts, which rears are you running?
As for gearing, I presume you are running 8 mins (some clubs do run 5 mins), but are you running 4-cell?
I hope so, a 6-cell 10x3 would be a bit quick to say the least :o
For a 10x3 on 4-cell with 3300's, I would gear around the 35/36mmpr range - but if you are just starting with 12th scale, it may pay to go for a slightly milder motor to start with.
Don't worry about the tweak screws, set them so they do not touch the T-bar, even at full side travel.
One of the most important things to get right with a 12th car is the ride height - make sure it is the same front and rear - about 4mm.

(And you may want to fill in your proflie before Admin catch it empty ;))

steven bough

12-09-2003, 07:03 PM

last season most corally drivers used gold rears & silver fronts...has for gearing people use mpr of around 36mpr ,has your tyres wear down the mpr alters,hopefully at the back of the instructions book,should have the list regarding mpr,.

which car have you got the GRP version or graphite?

(if you are doing the Nationals),which i would recremend you do-ask any corally driver what mpr they are using & they will help you out)thats why i keep with corally,because the top team drivers are very supportive,regardles of what level your at!!

ste
8)

alien

12-09-2003, 11:54 PM

Thanks for the input! I'm not sure what tires I have. They are the kit tires. What compounds does the kit come with? With this knowledge what should I run with?

KRob

13-09-2003, 11:00 AM

The car I've got came with Silver compound fronts and Gold rears, check to see if there is a colour sticker on the inside of the wheel.

For running on carpet, with purple fronts I would prefer to run Jaco/TRC grey rears, but Corally gold (or even silver) rears should do fine.

steven bough

13-09-2003, 01:27 PM

Has any one tested the new rear end for the 12M.
If so do you have any info about it you wish to share?

Ive got the new rear,but i havn't got my new car to use it on-hopefully it should be here Monday.

Ive also brought the Cells Backward's Chassis,Its a new chassis were they have put the battery's back 5cm,has any one else got one of these?
if so is there any noticable diffrence over the old chassis???

Thanks & Kind Regard's

Steve Bough..
8)

rice98w

13-09-2003, 04:59 PM

methinks its 5mm!!! roflol!

would have thought the "cells back" chassis would give more rear grip, more weight at the back.

did griff use this special chassis last season? i know that the sakke's and simo's did after reading about it on www.overrc.com

ste you have a pm ;)

matt

steven bough

15-09-2003, 02:43 PM

Mat The link above isn't working-Can you send me the right link has i would like to have a neb at it

Ste

How do you guys down south (AMC) boys think of the new rear & chassis for the 12M ?
He was telling me he has a few drivers testing it?

I know Andy Sawyer tried it for the first time on saturday,& he seem to do o.k,& by the end of the night said he has just about got his head around it-which is good to say it was his first night using it.

rice98w

15-09-2003, 06:04 PM

yes it is! lol

http://www.overrc.com/

gbevens

15-09-2003, 11:13 PM

Not meaning to be a party pooper, but can i sugest that this thread be moved to the corally section on the main forum, although this is 1/12th circuit related it is dedicated to corally cars

acurry

16-09-2003, 05:27 PM

Gareth you Party Pooper ;D ;D ;D

KRob

16-09-2003, 07:02 PM

Yep, definately pooped my party :'(

gbevens

18-09-2003, 11:05 PM

Sorry Guys,

Anybody wanting to know about Corally cars will more than likeley look here first, stick a note on the 12th board saying it's here (I wouldn't poop that!)

Gareth

steven bough

26-10-2003, 12:11 PM

I have a question regarding the SP12M diff-

Ive noticed a diffrence between the diffs i brought around 2yrs ago-and the diffs i buy now.

The diffrence is that the outer diff balls that are sunk into the moulded grey round plastic casing,have changed,

i.e the older diffs kit came with a lot smaller plastic casing that was black,plus the diff balls were half the size to what they are now,-

Also the washers that fit each side of the diff balls were smaller than they are now!

Does any one know why they changed to the bigger,hevier- grey type?

Has the older type diff,must be easly half the weight to what we use now,-
plus the old one the balls are half the size!

The reason i ask is im thinking of re-buiding my diff & using the old type diff plastic diff ring and washers to try & save some weight.Has i have a few of the older plastic diffs ring left,But thought i had better ask why they changed to a heavier type first,before using them?? ???

Dave Treacy

05-12-2003, 09:44 AM

Mike et al,

I've recently converted from 6 cell stock to 4 cell mod, but still run the 6 cell chassis. If I get a 4 cell chassis, is the rest of the car interchangable?

PS, I've got a source for Grade 12 M3 countersunk bolts for front suspension, you know, the ones that always bend if you hit anything. PM for details.

Glenn Atterton

05-12-2003, 01:33 PM

Grade 12 M3 countersunk bolts for front suspension

If there not to expensive buy a boat load and bring them to Mold. I'm sure we can have some fun trying to bend them ;D

MattW

05-12-2003, 05:27 PM

Dave, If it's a 12M 6 cell chassis yeah i am fairly sure it will all fit. The T bar mount and Radio tray is different, but i use the 6 cell bits on my 4 cell car.

btw, also interested in the front damper screws.

MikeS

05-12-2003, 05:51 PM

Sorry for the late response.

You should be okay Dave.

I would caution the use of those screws - it is far better to bend a screw than rip it out of the chassis, you will just be transferring the stress, just an observation. I am pretty sure Corally can get any screw they wish and would have provided such a harder screw it it was merited.

John_Parker

17-10-2004, 07:51 PM

Anyone want to venture an opinion on which t-bar is the stonger? Clearly the carbon is lighter, but I just want the strongest. I've broken both glass and carbon, the glass seemed to break in a minor shunt.

MattW

17-10-2004, 10:32 PM

Not sure, but i wouldn't ever choose either based purely on strength. Just out of interest where did you break them??

John_Parker

18-10-2004, 10:02 PM

Matt,
Humm, not easy to describe - I'll upload a picture and link it tomorrow.
Best description - look underneath the car, project a line down the length of the car in line with the left edge of the chassis cutout for the T-bar (endbell side of car). Where this line intersects the T they broke, it's right on the transition from the radius to the parallel section. Both broke on the same line.

MattW

18-10-2004, 10:08 PM

I think i understand what you are saying, and think i might have a solution for you..........If you do upload the pic, i'll have a look and see if i am thinking along the right lines.

John_Parker

19-10-2004, 07:25 PM

Matt,
I think it's pretty clear on this picture (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/parkerfamily99/crackt.jpg)

I also have some ideas!
John

MattW

19-10-2004, 08:45 PM

Ok John, that is where i suspected from your description.

Now, for my suggestion. I would take the "L" shaped piece that is spaced above the T bar, and bolt it directly to the T Bar. The 2 extreme ends will need the spacers putting above to keep the same spacing to the pod. This will have the effect of a double thickness around the front edge, and it also has the added bonus of of stiffening this point of the T bar, and actually makes the T bar flex in the right place.

Snails_Pace

30-10-2004, 10:53 AM

:confused: I have a carbon SP12M and after several runs my front tyres have coned to extent where the outer edge of the tyres are Ø 45.0mm and the inside edges are Ø 46.0mm, this looks even more drastic than it sounds.

My set up is as follows:-
Tyres :- Front - Corally Silver -- Rear - Corally Gold
Front Wishbones - metal
Front Springs - 0.80mm (kit)
Front Wishbone connector - 2.4mm GRP
Front Steering Blocks - plastic ballraced using middle hole
Caster - 0.8mm shim

Rear - Tube Damper - Red Grease
Rear - Shock 40wt. Gold Spring
Rear - 'T' bar GRP
Rear - Low Roll Centre kit with no shims
Rear - Adjust 'T' bar Tweak kit set to stiffest on 'U' plate

Ground clearance - 4mm all round

Body - CEFX (also a few runs with Sauber Mercedes & lightweight protoform speed 8).

My thoughts were to raise the rear roll centre but any explained advise would be appreciated.

MattW

30-10-2004, 07:38 PM

I think i know what you actually need, but there isn't what you'd call an easy way of going about it. Sounds like the front end needs some camber.

I suspect what is actually happening is that the front end is moving about a lot due to the soft front springs that you are running. I suspect that in the corner, the inside wheel is at positive camber, and hence wearing the outer edge of that tyre. Camber would help to stop this, as may a stiffer front spring. I haven't ever had any coneing of front tyres, but usually run a 1.0 front spring.

Luke Hobson

01-11-2004, 04:23 PM

hi all

just a quick question here, but...........what tyre compound should i start with for very high grip tarmac? would it be the same as with carpet or not?

thanks alot
luke hobson

slow coach

06-11-2004, 09:10 PM

Hi All

Some questions on t bar tuning, i have read that placing a washer under the front pivot on the t bar improves the car, does anyone know how, and what are the advantages of the lowered pivot balls, if anyone has other tricks for t bar tuning feel free to add them.

Jason :)

MattW

06-11-2004, 09:41 PM

Lowered pivot balls (and suitably shorter spacers under the T bar connector) will give the rear of the car a little more grip, and give it more "roll stiffness" in effect. The rear won't roll as much.

RC-Drift

07-08-2005, 09:00 PM

:confused: I have a carbon SP12M and after several runs my front tyres have coned to extent where the outer edge of the tyres are Ø 45.0mm and the inside edges are Ø 46.0mm, this looks even more drastic than it sounds....
I had the same prob and after scratching my head for a few weeks I came to the conclusion that The rubber 'o' rings under the damper springs needed to be thicker so I simply swapped them for the rear front pivot 'o' rings (which are quite a bit thicker)

Now my car has about 1° camber and the tyres are wearing the way I prefer (and steers through corners faster too)

BTW mine is the SP12M GRP version (our clubs 1:12th class)

slow coach

17-09-2005, 03:03 PM

pete_slim

05-10-2005, 03:49 PM

HI all

its been a while since any info was posted on here, what seems to be the hottest mods at the moment for improving the 12M i see there is a new chassis being tried out and a new axle +3mm wider any other mods to note?? ;) what are the advantages of running the ceramic nitride thrust and diff balls, I see on other threads they are saying to go back to steel diff balls :confused: , on the battery front is everyone running 3700 this year and will running 3300 be a big disadvantage, and how many packs are needed for a national to be safe for recharging, what motor winds are favoured at the moment.

Many thanks Jason :)

Hi jason,

The +3mm back axle makes the car more 'planted' when cornering at speed and less likely to wash out at the back. Gives you much more confidence in the car.
The smaller ceramic thrust race is a lot smoother than using the older large ring thrust race setup with 1/8 ceramic balls in it..
Some people prefer to use a mixture of steel and ceramic balls in the diff, but I have had no problem with using ceramic throughout (just remember to loosen the diff when you finish your days racing and your plates should not get flatspots). If you do groove the diff plates then simply take them off and polish them back flat with the finest grade wet and dry you can find at your local DIY store.
The only problem I have found is that the diff has come loose once or twice. I remedied this by putting a small piece of insulation tape on the diff thread and putting the diff nut over the top.

I bought 4 x 6cell packs of 3700's and have therefore made up 6 x 4 cell packs for racing. You can use them twice per weekend, but discharge and equalise them before running them. (and let them cool down). You might see a small drop in capacity on the second charge.

At the 1/12 national

saturday - 19t, Drive it like you stole it and you should still have power left in your cells..
Sunday - mod, this seasons prefered motors in my pit box are 9 or 10 turns (single or double). No real need for anything any hotter...

Just gear up/down depending on the size of the track and hold on....

Using 3300's shouldnt really be noticeable on the saturday but you may have to be a bit lighter with the throttle if you use 33's on the sunday.

hope that helps

Glenn Atterton

05-10-2005, 04:02 PM

I bought 4 x 6 cell packs of 3700's and have therefore made up 6 x 4 cell packs for racing. You can use them twice per weekend, but discharge and equalise them before running them. (and let them cool down). You might see a small drop in capacity on the second charge.

Using 3 x 4 cell packs all weekend without any probs. Just do what Pete says and discharge and equalise them before running them. I use 3 x 6 cell packs for off-road to and have no probs at all.

At the 1/12 national

Saturday - 19t, Drive it like you stole it and you should still have power left in your cells..
Sunday - mod, this seasons preferred motors in my pit box are 9 or 10 turns (single or double). No real need for anything any hotter...

Just gear up/down depending on the size of the track and hold on....

Using 3300's shouldn't really be noticeable on the Saturday but you may have to be a bit lighter with the throttle if you use 33's on the Sunday.

hope that helps

Did the above on Sat & Sun's but used 19T both days. Come Chesterfield I suffered with mod not lasting as I must have been driving it like a 19T :mad:. Using 37's this year so should be OK :D

slow coach

06-10-2005, 12:02 AM

Thanks guys, i had ordered a +3mm axle but i think i have been sent the standard one instead :rolleyes: , could i trouble you guys for some more info i have been told to check the rear droop by pulling the shock to its full extent then measuring how far the pod drops, should be 1.5mm am i on the right track and is there an easy way to do this :confused: also do most people run the rear tbar at its lowest point or with any washers, do you use different thickness shims instead of the ones that come with the kit ?? if so where is a good place to get them.

Cheers Jason :)

Might have to enter saturday as well, i just dont want to have to buy another motor, would tyres last all weekend (4 sets) or would they be losing their edge on the sunday.

pete_slim

06-10-2005, 09:02 AM

Hi again jason,

the newer rear axle is Part No:
# 75862 SP12m Rear axle+ 3mm.. you should have two little silver shims with it.

With the cells and everything in the car, i tend to have the chassis 3-4mm off the ground, (the front of the car very slightly higher than the back) and set the ride height and shock tension so that the spring is just in tension when the car is sat in that state.
As for the rear droop or backwards flex of the tbar.... its not very easy to explain but here goes.
When you have the car fully loaded up with cells and motor etc, The shock absorber should be able to be pulled out by about 3 or 4 mm from this steady position when the car is flat on the ground. You need to unscrew the ball joints on the shocker to do this. We used to have to use a longer ball joints as the shock wasnt long enough to give any backwards movement but now there is a different versions of the 12m motor top plate. the newest version has a longer extension for the shock absorber. So the std ball joints will work.

Too much backwards motion causes the car to 'dive' into corners too much.. bizarre but that is what i've found to be the case.

As for spacing the tbar and roll centre. I use the kit lowered roll centre on the back, and space the tbar so that it sits level with the bottom of the chassis..

I think the car comes assembled with 1x 1mm shim in all three positons but I think it needs about 1.5 or 2mm of shims

I am not sure of where to get the shims as they just seem to appear in depths and corners of my pit box..

Tyres should last ok... for the weekend and longer, just rotate the sets so that you dont use the same set in two consecutive runs...
depending on the bodyshell, you may need to true the tyres to a lower diameter, as tyres that are too big cause you to have very obscure handling, if they catch the inside of the bodyshell.

The tyres may grip 'differently' on their second run, it may be apparent that they grip a more, which makes the cxar seem safer and easier to drive, although this may not necessarily be quicker.

as for doing saturday too, its a fantastic weekend where everyone helps each other out if they need it. A 19turn will last you for ages and you dont need to do very much maintenance to it at all ...As glenn said, you can keep it in the car for the full meeting and you wont notice too much of a difference in your times.

Good luck, I cant make it to crewe due to other commitments (will be at teeside tho), but Im sure if you have any questions the other corally guys will be more than happy to help out if they can.

slow coach

14-10-2005, 12:24 AM

HI Pete

not sure if I am doing the shock thing right so I have measured the total length ball joint to ball joint and make it 71.04mm using the std black ball joints the top one is only slightly wound out, I also only just have the spring preloaded this supports the car without any problems, I currently have 1 shim under the T Bar ball joints and run it parallel, I run the lowered ball joints on the rear front wishbones and the std one on the front plus 1 shim the rest of the car is standard, how much do you preload the front springs?? will try to get the +3mm rear axle as this does sound worth while, I will be running the car next week now as tonights meeting was cxxd due booking error I will report back after that, hopefully the car will be better.

Cheers Jason :)

PS are you going to plymouth

pete_slim

14-10-2005, 01:29 AM

Jason,

You have PM...

I dont have my car at the moment, so cannot check the length of the centre shock.

The lowered pivots are the same as what I use. Although I have reduced the front end castor by removing the washer from beneath the normal front pivot ball..

Please feel free to check my car as per my PM..

Good luck.

Pete

slow coach

14-10-2005, 07:40 AM

Thanks pete unfortunately only doing plymouth this year at least, might try more next year as I dont think I will be travelling as much for 1/8th as I was well dissapointed this year with the 8/10 series, youre answers have been very helpful and good luck around christmas.

Jason

John_Parker

10-04-2006, 06:35 PM

This thread seems to have gone quiet, and I've been running my 12Ms more recently, so thought I'd pose a question...

the kit wishbone connector always struck me as way too stiff, so I made up some thinner GRP versions. Now I'm no 1/12 expert, but I felt the car still had too much understeer, so tried removing it altogether - much better! (1.0 and 1.1 mm springs).

any sage like to comment on use of connectors?

MattW

10-04-2006, 10:39 PM

This is something that we have played with, and it seems to depend on the track. We tried a thin GRP bar with a 1.1 and i think even 1.2 spring. Personally i thought it allowed the front of the car to move around too much, my car seemed to really kill front tyres as you suddenly get a lot of camber movement. I did run like this at Plymouth and qualified 3rd, car was very good. However, then at the following round the front end just really felt nasty, so went back to thick GRP and 1.0mm spring and the front of the car just felt so much more settled.