Mi2 & Tamiya shocks

[Barry_Hughes]

If you use Tamiya shocks on the Mi2 what springs do you use? I am thinking of getting some of the new Flouride coated low friction threaded Tamiya shocks.

[jason]

Barry,
Most people are running associated springs with them, but a new shock design and new range of springs will be available from schumacher shortly.
Jason

[alexoutrim]

what are worng with the shocks that come with the kit anyway? ???

[Remo]

Apparently they dont provide enough shock travel to for certain set up requirements...

[MarkB]

I've got a set on order too Barry...should be here before the first BTCC ;D

The problem with the kit shocks is when running very stiff set ups, like the outside hole top and bottom. As Remo says there is a limit to shock travel, its a known problem and Jason clearly know something I don't about a fix ;)

Cheers
Mark

[MattW]

I've done some thinking and checking with this issue, and it goes something like this.

There should be no problem unless you wish to use the very outer hole on the rear wishbone. Not sure how the top position effects it as i hadn't looked into this.

When using the other holes, i believe the std shocks should be in the 67/64mm (R/F) in length. This gives the best solutions in both travel and droop.

[Andrew_Carter]

Thes tamiya shocks are plenty of notes aint they? :-
and do you have to buy the lower shock towers to fit them??

Cheers

[Bt]

good to see other people experiencing the same problems as me, running the shocks in std hole on the wishbone and in a hole at the top on the rear means i dont have enough droop, but backing the ballend off a couple of turns compensates for this altho isnt exactlly ideal. good to hear there's some new bits in the pipeline :)

[jason]

Andrew,
Tamiya shocks can be had at a reasonable price but you need to shop around. I picked up a set for £35 from an ebay shop.
They can be made to fit with the standard towers but it is alot of messing about cutting ball ends and playing with the lengths with the lower towers they go straight on.

Jason

[Declan]

I toataly agre with wot has been said,by every 1.
And i was getting mi2 but not sure wot too get now wot do you think are the shocks really doin this and why???

[MattW]

It isn't the end of the world, and is't a good enough reason not to get the car.

I am in regular contact with the guys from Australia and they are running the std shocks. I think one of them has played around with a TRF set, but is still running the std ones.

They have also been having very good results, beating their own P.B's straight away, and winning lots of races. Including a big race last weekend.

[Declan]

Cheers that seems intresting very i might ask my m8 to try it cxheers a lot.

[Declan]

Cheers sory eror mistake.

[Andrew_Carter]

found some tamiya shocks on ebay! ;D after half n hour! worth the 30quid??? i run assocaited springs like some works drivers so have to use spacers in the mi2 shocks anyhow!

Help appreciated

[Barry_Hughes]

Do you run the Tamiya shocks at the the same length as he standard shocks?

[MattW]

If you use std brackets then yes, although personally no because i am not running std brackets!!

[robh]

Hello all

I found this site showing the use of tamiya shocks with low mounts on the Mi2, looks very nice.

http://www.rochesterrc.com/articles/article.php?aid=1084

[MattW]

Yeah that is Mike McMahon's car from the US meeting in cleaveland. That link is somewhere in the "New Tourer" thread i think.

The front mount doesn't look like a production "Low" mount >:( Rear one does though!

[jason]

Matt's right the production front low mount gives more layed down shocks.
I ran today at Bedworth and ran a low rear mount on the front to get the shocks more upright.

Jason

[Andrew_Carter]

so when fitting the tamiya shocks do i have to buy the front and rear low mounts? if so are they avalible yet? ???

[MattW]

You don't have to. You can either use std mounts with a long ish bottom link (std is about right i think) or Low mounts with a shorter bottom link, and yes the low mounts are available AFAIK.

[Andrew_Carter]

So if i fitted the lower mounts what handling changes will i see if any? ???

[MattW]

Doubt you'd see much. Although the front angles would be different so that would alter the front end a little. The rear is more or less the same.

[colin_jackson]

andrew,

the tamiya shocks give more uptravel than the schumacher shocks. on bumpy tracks you may well see an improvement in performance (eg ashby)

colin

[Andrew_Carter]

Cheers Col

I need to get my hands on some!
were did you get yours from?? PBM?

[neveo]

Where do u get all ur parts from as i have only just found somewhere where i can get replacement parts !!! :eek:

Also when r the new schuie springs ment 2 b available ?

[Andrew_Carter]

Matt what lenghts do your run your tamiya shocks at with low mounts? btw i have a front low mount on the front not rear!

cheers mate, Andrew

[MattW]

I have been running 61 front with 63 rear. Not sure if the front would want to me any different with the proper front tower

[Andrew_Carter]

ok cheers Matt

So 63 on the rear, anyone now how long the fronts need to be with the front low mount on the front!?

[Andrew_Carter]

anyone?? :rolleyes:

[MarkB]

Mine have just arrived :cool:

Based on Jason's running 62mm all round seems to work fine - ask me after practice on Saturday at WLRC ;)
Cheers
Mark

[neveo]

http://www.fseara.org/gallery/album23/teemi_leino_schuey?full=1

More of the tamiya shocks being used !
The main thing i noticed about the pic is teemu using alot of extra weight on the front left (front right in the pic)

Still no sign of alloy C Hubs but it looks like he does have alloy pivot pin holders at the back for inboard toe. Any1 else got these ?

[MattW]

Teemu has always used those parts, they are the alloy pivot blocks from the Fireblade/Cat 3000. They give slightly different geometry (roll centre and toe-in) to the standard parts. They have been tried in UK conditions and the car wasn't all that special. It's best to keep with the kit parts at the moment.

[Andrew_Carter]

Looing at Teemu's car he is running a diffrent bottom deck as it has a fixed batter position. And also has Teemu drilled the screw holes in his top deck to a wider diameter. Woulndt this totally kill all tweak in the top deck?
Or are they just pretty purpule washers i can see! :D

[MattW]

I believe those washers are to help with tweak. They are Countersunk washers, so use countersunk screws but then have a blat base onto the top deck.

[Bt]

if you d/l teemu's setup sheet for the lrp masters he mentions he is still using the prototype 2.5mm chassis. I remember the early prototype pics of the Mi2 having the countersunk washers on the topdeck. Wasnt there talk or a revised topdeck in the works to eleminate all the tweak?

[MattW]

Bt, There has been a top deck with bushes intended to eliminate the tweak available for some time.

[Andrew_Carter]

what adavantage does having a 2.5mm chassis give you? will that kill any aspects of tweak? Matt is this top deck listed in the parts bit in the maunnual? if not anyone got any part numbers? :D

[jason]

Andrew I think its the same part No because it is in the later kits.

Jason

[Unclean]

also if you look at that picture teemu is running the low front shock tower on the rear if im not mistaken?

[mattcaney]

What springs are you guys using with Tamiya shocks. Also what are the part numbers for the lower shock mounts. What Oil and pistion set up do you run. I think thats about it for the mement :-), Thanks Matt

[MattW]

The 2.5mm chassis, worked well on high grip carpet that was at the LRP race. I wouldn't worry about it in UK conditions, the 2mm seems better. The bushed top deck is a direct replacement for the origional one so the part number is the same. Not sure how much difference it makes to anything, as i am still running the origional top deck on my car. If you decide to get the new top deck you need the bushes and they are seperate, but i haven't got the part number!

Unclean, you are mistaken ;)

MattC, the low shock tower part number should be in teh manual, i haven't got them handy at the moment. Personally i am running (f/r) 40/30 oil, AE Blue/AE silver springs

[neveo]

As u guys have been on about the top deck just taking a closer look at it... Noticed that teemu doesnt have the screw in the top deck to the heatsink (sorta inline with the pinion)

Also he doesnt have the kit rear tower as it enables him to use the SST Body holders !!

[colin_jackson]

the rear shock mount that you have noticed is a prototype which teimu has been using. it is just a low rear (tamiya) with body posts mounted on it. guess its how teimu likes it and it also reduces weight.

the chassis in the pic should be a 2.5mm carbon with bats fixed at rear outer position, i dont belive this chassis will be made for sale.

i wouldnt reckomend removeing the screw from the top deck though. in testing we tried it to remove tweak (which was in some eaarly cars) and in a heavy impact i broke a top deck! :mad: :D

Matt C - i second matts settings, it mainly what the team has been running on out doors so far, 40/30 3 hole AE blue/silver

colin jackson

[MattW]

in testing we tried it to remove tweak (which was in some eaarly cars) and in a heavy impact i broke a top deck! :mad: :D


Maybe there is a lesson there...................... ;) ;)

[mattcaney]

Have the associated springs a part number, do they come in pairs or in a set like the schumacher ones.

[MattW]

They come as either a full set (12lb - 40lb) or they can be bought in pairs.

[colin_jackson]

lol dam right matt :p :p

[neveo]

So who knows the most about the new schuie shock ???

Any idea of when it will be available ? :cool:

[MarkB]

So many questions... ;)

After Jason's fine set up work, we are running 45wt oil all round with 2 hole pistons front and three hole rear. Shock length 62mm all round using the shorter Tamiya ball joint, and the low front/rear Schuy shock mounts.

Yes the Associated springs are available in pairs, and for those v keen so are IRS springs which sit half way between the Associate ratings. I know of others using HPI springs, and think that X-Ray springs would probably also fit. Most of us are using Associated so at least the colours make sense if you use those.

Depends on the track - we are currently around Red/Copper.

Don't know a huge amount about the new Schumacher shocks - have heard they will look the part when they come...

Cheers
MarkB

[neveo]

Is there any sort of shock system that they are going for ? Changing the internals aswell ?

They are still keeping it Pimp Purple tho rite ? :cool:

[jason]

Neveo,
I expect they will be purple although they have done teflon coated before. I think the volume compensator will be changed and the will most likely be top filled. The internals are being changed to increase travel.

Jason

[neveo]

I think that a rubber blade system would be better than the foam compensator :rolleyes:

But it sounds like they will be good, hopefully not tooooooooo expensive !

[Andrew_Carter]

so are all you works drivers going back to these new shocks or are you going to stick with the trsty tamiya ones, as i see mark b has his up for sale on the for sale section! :confused:

[MarkB]

Tough question Andy - I'm v impressed with the Tamiya shocks.

The set for sale happen to be a second set, whihc I cannot justify keeping (even for spares)

Cheers
Mark

[neveo]

I suppose, Being Team Drivers, u SHOULD use the team equipment !! :p

I hope u guys do so i know whether to get them or not ! :cool:

[Andrew_Carter]

New thed be a good reason mark! :D

[Matt Bridge]

Team drivers should use the kit components wherever possible. There is no doub't there are improvements to be made on the schuee shocks but have you ever seen them on Andy W 's car when winning the gas nats ? No. i think Chris A has gone back to standard as did Colin J at the weekend.

[jason]

Matt,
Thats because the R12 and the mission have the same suspension design and geometry, there is no problem with them on these cars. But the Mi2 has different geometry and requires more shock travel for it to work to its full potential, hence the use of Tamiya shocks.

Jason

[colin_jackson]

alright matty,

yeh i did change back to the schuy shocks at the weekend but that was only to try a none diafram shock, due to the bumps at the track we where racing on!

jason andy does stuggle sometimes on the R12 to get enougth up travel from the shocks, but he doesnt like to use other companys products on his car. :cool:

colin

[Nick Hudson]

i have had no issues with the schumacher shocks at all. they work as they should and build fine. try building losi xxx-s shocks with no air in them and you will appreciate the schuey ones even more !!

nick hudson

[neveo]

This shouldnt really of happened due to all the testing that they did ! :eek:

Just hope that the new system isn't tooooo expensive ! An XRay shock system would me nice :cool:

[Andrew_Carter]

So whats happening with these new schuie shocks? are they going to be a carbon copy of the tamiya ones and just be purpule?
And also are the works drivers going to go back to these new shocks?
Anyone tested them yet?
All very confuzzerling! :confused:

[gatesy]

They will be something like the Tamiya shocks from what ive heard, looks like they keep the standard collar though.

With the Associated spring kit, do you just get a pair of each rate, or a full set (4) of each rate?

[Andrew_Carter]

Just a pair of each rate, 9 pairs you get, just buy 2 sets if you want to double up, i dont see the need to have 4 of each rate as when are you going to run purple all round!
Just double up on the softer springs like Silver, Blue, Red, and Gold are probs the most common ones i use with my tamiya shocks.

[MattW]

The new shocks aren't a direct copy of Tamiya ones. Sure they are similar, but not a carbon copy.

Personally i would say that yes i suspect i shall use them. If they are good (and it seems they are) there is no good reason not to, and there is the added bonus of being able to get spares (easily) for them.

Don't ask me when or how much though :rolleyes:

[gatesy]

Th big foam compensaters are removed, to allow more travel in the same size damper. They will also be compatible with standard schu springs.

[Bt]

Is there a noticable difference between the std setup and the tamiya shocks with lowdown mounts?

[Andrew_Carter]

Hey BT

I think most will agree that the Tamiya shocks make an inprovment to the mi2, these is not much noticable change to the rear of the car, and the front of the car just becomes more responsive. Thats what ive found anyway, what about the rest of you?

[gatesy]

I found they made the rear of the car more planted. and I got blue ones so they look wicked aswell! :p

[Bt]

Thanks guys, you can keep the more responsive front end but i'll take the more back end grip :D Could the more back end grip not just be down to having rear droop with the tamiya shocks tho? I backed the ball end off a couple of turns on the rear shocks to get some droop and it made the world of a difference.

[Barry_Hughes]

The Tamiya shocks are used to get droop when you use the outer holes on the top mounts, otherwise there is no difference really with using Schumachers shocks.

[al]

im sure i heard that schumacher are developing new shocks!

[Bt]

read ^^ up ^^ a little bit Al and you will see them being discussed ;)

[al]

Got it sorry, dont like reding to much shumacher stuff it makes me feel cheap :p

[neveo]

Cheap !?!

Whats wrong with Schumacher gear ? :eek:

[[HOGS] Weasel]

Do these TRF shocks fit the Mission as well? I need some new shocks and everybody seems to really rate them.

[Dave Treacy]

Several chaps at our club run missons with the TRF shocks. Seem to fit without problems. I know they fit an Xray :cool: but I had to use the long ball end rather than the short one.

[MattW]

Hog, yes they will fit a mission. You just need to sort the correct length bottom ball end. From memory either an Associated one or cut Schumacher one.