SST 99 Pro Setup Problems

[lewist]

I have already asked a few people about a setup for my car but i thought i would put it out here and see if anyone can help..

www.danesfieldquartt.demon.co.uk/touringcar.WMV

that link is to a video of how my car USED to handle.. i stripped it down to change the bearings (they had all got a little gravelly) i put the car back together exactly the same as it came apart, with the exception of 2 bent front lower wishbone pivot pins (which i have subsiquently reinstalled!!) and the car does not handle at all well.. it goes round the corners fine enough but it feels very disconnected and generally all over the shop.. you can see from the vid that the circuit is very tight and so i need a lot of steering response from the car.

I am running

27t Stock
red springs front and Yellow back,
60 wt all round
sst98 shock towers
no anti roll
full caster
2 deg, camber rear and 2.5 - 3 deg camber front
Fast Tyres 40 (foams)

Any help would be apriciated.. i don't know where to start!!

p.s. this setup is the same as i had before and it was perfect!

[SSTrallyMASTER]

Hi,
I used to have an SST 99 but have recently changed to a raly version to go out side on off road tracks. I think you may need to try the anti roll bars. I used to run just the back but it variys on driving skills, you might need front, you might need back, you might even need both. Also try some carpet dagoons for tyres this helps on handling.
SSTrallyMASTER

[gatesy]

Well I've never run a harder spring on the rear than front, try yellow front red rear.

[lewist]

have tried the springs the other way round, understeered a lot!

anti roll makes no difference!

i think i am going to give up with it indoors, i can't make it work at all.. i had a play with it last nite and still can't make it do what i want it to..

the thing that puzzles me is that i had it working beautiful and it was really wasy to setup.. but now its all over the shop!!

[dhamblin]

Have you checked the droop setting?

After experimenting with it at our last meeting at WKRCC, having it the same front and rear at 3 gauge as opposed to 2 at front and 4 at the back got me an extra 2 laps.

Try it you might be surprised!

regards

DanH

[Mike Calver]

It may be a long shot but did you put the tires on the same 4 corners you got them off in the first place to rebuild the car.

i may be well off but i thought as some tires wear inconsistantly on all 4 corners it may unbalance the car if you mix them around as handling is 90% tires and 10% droop,toe-in etc.

Mike

[mark barord]

Working on the basis that a Mission and a SST 99 are fairly similar....
Try
shocks 2 hole 40 wt all round
Springs red on the front blue on the rear
1.5 degrees camber all round
0 toe in at front
2 degrees toe in at rear
5 mm ride hight
2mm droop at front
3mm droop at rear
check tweek, if you do not know how to do this look at Mike Smith's article on Race News.
With Foam tyres you need to keep a eye on them. I swap them around every week to equalise tyre wear (put the bigger tyres on the outside)
Hope this helps.

[lewist]

the tyres are good, i put them back on the corners they come off (i had this problem once before i know rite what corner the come off on the wheel!!)

i have not played with the droop .. the screws are backed out all the way.. i could give that a go!!

i am taking it outside now i think.. so i will see how it goes round west london next weekend and see!!

[lewist]

Update:-

I have given up indoors for the time being.. can't get the car to work at all so i decided to see what i could do outdoors with it..

i raced at west london over the bankholiday weekend and the car was truely awfull!!

at high speeds the car was pritty good, round the faster sections of the track the car was really nice, i could get the front tucked in quite nicely. however on every single slow speed corner the back end was stepping out as i tried to get the power down, even the lightest of touches on the gas would cause the car to spin 180 or more!!!

i messed about with it over the 2 days and finally came up with this solution which made the car just driveable bit was still tail happy on the right handers if you tried to hurry it allong!

my setup was

60 wt and 2 holes all round
yellow springs all round
1.5 deg camber front
3 deg camber rear
0 deg toe in front
3 deg toe in rear
98 shock towers with front in inner hole and rear in outer top hole
front anti roll,
changed the rear upper wishbone mount to the 98 version so i lowered the pivot centre of the upper rear wishbone
about 5 mm ground clearance on the front and about 6 on the back

it just feels horrid!!

i think there is something fundementally wrong with the car (hence the fact it stopped working indoors too!!)

any ideas before it is got shot of.. i really like the car, i used to love driving it but now its just nasty and i have run out of ideas!!

thanks

[mark barord]

Check the hinge pins. Schumacher plastic is stronger than their metal! A bent hinge pin can make the car do the sort of things you are describing.

[lewist]

yeah i made sure the hinge pins are all straight, i had a couple of bent front ones, but they were one of the first things i looked at and replaced.

i also checked the chassis tweek, and made sure that was all correct too.

[rich_p]

What about diff tightness. Having them uneven can cause handling issues, well it used to on mine when I still used it.

[jason]

One thing that really screws up the handling and is very difficult to spot is if you bent the lower pivot ball where it screws into the bottom of the hubs. Have you checked these?

Jason

[neveo]

I have just upgraded from the 99pro & i think that u should definatly have the car car set up alot softer ! Id say grey springs on the back & blue on the front about 5mm droop rear bout 4-5 on the front about 5mm rideheight. Unscrew the grub screws on the lower wishbones at the back all the way !

Try that for 1 week. If that doesnt make any difference then i will be supprised. Take a new set of tyres as well if poss.

If after trying all of them then i would say to lenghten the shocks. This is quite simple but fiddley ! Take the ball joints off the shocks & cut them down so that the overall shock lenght is longer. But if u were to do this then i would reccommend a set of threaded shocks off the mi2 or mission.

Let me know if u need any more help i would like to help out !

[lewist]

Pivot ball screws are all straight (checked that at the race meeting) i fiddeled with the diffs a little and that didn't sort it,

as for springs, i tried grey on the back with yellow and red on the front, no different, i also tried different tyres at the meeting to see if it was them, but no, that made no difference either

as for the droop, i tried a few different settings and that didn't help either, whatever i do to it, i hardly changes the car at all!

I may try the car once more, but i think i am giving up on it now, and i am going to get an Xray! i think there is something fundeamentally wrong with the car and i just can't find it!! so i reget to say that i give up!! see if i can get a few quid for it!!

[neveo]

Have u tried adjusting the caster ? Can u adjust the wheelbase on the 99 i cant remember & mine is in bits if so short front wheel base & medium on the back works well alot of turning aswel which is what u say that u need.

[lewist]

Rite... i have been tinkering but no joy, if i increase the antisquat, will that help improve rear end grip on power??

i have just realised this might be the problem if my theory is correct!

any ideas?

[dhamblin]

I don't think anti-squat makes that much of a difference.

After reading a post in the main Touring Car section have you made sure that the rear diff is looser than the front one. From what university_dave posted it sounds like the symptons are similar for your car (spinning easily on power)

[neveo]

Ok. More anit-squat = more power traction. Too much makes the car unstable for high speed corners. On slippery track u ARE ment to add anti-squat !

So what is the track like ?

[lewist]

the track is West London, don't know if you have raced there, its not bad at all everyone else seemed to get more than enough grip.

diffs are not the problem either, i have messed about with them!

[neveo]

Nope sorry i havent raced there, its a long way to travel from lancs.

So is the track fast & flowing or more slow u have to blip the throtle ?

Onje thing that u could do is stiffen the front end up which in theory gives the back end more grip :rolleyes:
How about tyres etc. do u have the same as the other guys ?

HTH

[lewist]

Ah rite... yeah its fairly fast and flowing but quite technical at the same time!!

Tyre.. i run the same as everone else does (and i have tried another guys tyres to make sure it wasn't mine!)

i have tried stiffening the front too... what ever i do spring and shock wise makes no differece, that i why i think it may be antisquat or something like that..

[neveo]

Hows the car in the street ? Still the same ?

So how do u have ur shocks set then ? id try 3 holes all round with about 45wt oil. I think i remember u said u run red/blue.

Go for anti squat on the back & kick up on the front. See hhow that is ;)

[lewist]

not tried it yet.. i think i will give it a go tomorrow or wednesday, (not got my transmitter with me or i would give it a go tonite!!)


At the moment i am running yellow all round, with 60wt and 2 holes

i think i am hedging my bets on antisquat being the problem, i have tried different springs, i have gone from the softest to the hardest springs and it has made no difference at either end or inbetween! yellow seemed to be marginally better but not by a lot!!

[dhamblin]

Is the suspension nice and tight? (i.e. wheels do not wobble, steering linkages are not overly loose etc.)

Are there two washers underneath the blocks that locate the lower rear wishbone pivot pins? (these are present on my old Pro 99)

Have you put the car on a set up system to make sure that the settings are correct? (due to the nature of the cars transmission system not being in line you can sometimes set the car up by eye to go straight but the wheels point in the wrong direction)

[neveo]

The weird thign about the 99 is that nothing is central. If u were to set the toe in/out by eye & then were to put it on a set up station then all of the settings are well out :rolleyes:

If u dont have a station then ask 1 of the guys trackside, I'm sure theres a kind fellow amoung them ! ;)