but i've only got a brushless motor

[fzr phil]

hi all,
great forum e.t.c... e.t.c.....

Now, i would love to do a bit of twelfth racing and have recently invested in a brushless motor setup to complement the rest of my ageing RC stuff. Maybe i could stretch to a 1/12th car and servo but no way to new/decent cells and new motor + esc.

Would i be allowed to race in the odd national round? (obviously 4 cell!)

What about club level, anyone have serious objections? (esp Grays/ High Wycombe sunday series)

thanks in advance for your comments

Phil Martin

(i am more of a wannabe racer than a pro-driver!)

[rice98w]

unfortunatly i cant see you being able to race at nationals...however im sure that at club level the introduction of brushless would be more than welcome.

i would like to see (next season obviously) a new class, this being an "open" class, where anything goes.

if we are going to get this technology off the ground then using them at club is a great idea.

however at nationals it would be agaisnt rules. :-Xsorry!

p.s. can i just add that 12th racing is NOT about having the nest cells known to man and the most expensive motors, as a Mr Mark Barford demonstrated last year. i believe he only had two packs of cells, and one motor which was not a handwound "pro" motor.

whilst i wouldnt like to start price comparisons, there are some great deals out there, 4 cell packs of GP's can be had for less than 20 notes, add to this a 30quid motor and a 2nd hand speedo and its far less expensive than what you might think.

anyway...something to think about! :D

hope that helps
matt rice

[Mark Stiles]

I get back to you about the sunday series. can't see it as being a problem, as our track is so small, its all about consistency not speed ;)

[Russ]

Phil

I would like to think that we could sort something out at a national :)
I hate the idea of turning someone away with something we can all learn from,
it would be an interesting trial.
You would likely be consigned to the first heat and the bottom final,
And we would have to be careful that the extra speed didnt cause problems for the other racers.

[rice98w]

well personally IMHO i dont agree with that at all. we had this problem last year with cells (and was just about avioded)

the rules are there...how can you as the chairman suggest we break these rules? im sorry but this is what was proposed in the egm, and we voted against it. end of.

club racing for brushless...yes..fine...not nationals though, nationals are supposed to be the best, with the fairest rules. surely this goes against all this?

maybe next year at the egm, someone will propose to have an "open" class, where brushless can be run, but this year for me is a no-no;. >:(


surely i am not alone on this?
matt

[Mark Stiles]

I can't see it as being a problem. i believe that brushless is the future, so we've got to introduce it at some point. When I race mardave V12's at a national, someone presented a scratch built car to the scrutineer. Obviously, this is illegal, and the builder knew this. HOWEVER, we let him run the car at the meeting, although he wasn't able to score points for the national series. Why don't you just do that for this brushless racer!? If he was so fast that he made the a or b final, then just move him into another (lower) one. Its not as if he could complain, as his car would effectively be illegal anyway!

How are new innovations ever going to take off if the rules forbid the use of them?

If you decided to let this person race, you could advertise this, and perhaps get 4 or 5 cars to make a separate heat?!

[marcoski]

Matt - LOL scared of the competition are we? They really are very fast ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D At least mine is ;D

[rice98w]

fair play marcus they are fast, but its against the rules!!!!!!!!

p.s. my car will be faster anyway...plus mine goes round corners liek stink! ;D

[marcoski]

So what have you to worry about, let him run it. OK he will score no points as the car would be illegal, but its about time someone tried it. Surely you are keen to see how this technology behaves against the elite of the sport. Changing the motor wont change his thumbs. Besides, he might let you have a go, and you will be impressed. You might even be temped to push a proposal for the new "open" class, though at the moment, they are not much quicker that a 10 double, so you should be OK with your 9!!

[rice98w]

;D ;D ;D

i have no problem with him running it....just not at national level! rules are rules!

if he came to our club and whooped my ass, fair play! i would be very intrigued, but if i bought one (im not having a go at the guy here btw) i would not expect to run it at national level because its against the rules!

like i said before, we went off on a tangent on the topic of cells last year with regards the rulings, and the best solution was made, but why make ourselves yet another problem governing the rules? ???

[marcoski]

Matt, I am sorry, but if you stamp your feet and say rules are rules, NOTHING will move on. I am glad to see your chairman has broader view of the subject, and I commend him.

[Mark Stiles]

You say rules are rules, but I bet you're still moaning about the fact that you can't use the parma speed 8 bodyshell! ;)

[rice98w]

they way it should move on at national level is by proposing a proposal and carrying it through.

like i have said before on the basil brushless thread, i would be very interested in running one, i am NOT against brushless, but how can one expect to run it this season at national level when we all know the rules, and have all agreed on them?

it just makes no sense, for example.
the class has been introduced at the "carpet masters" series, now what a great way of getting the cars noticed is that! the class has specific rulings, everyone knew in advance what those rulings are/were, and everyone knew that this was the rulings!

we have our rules, and unless enough people (5+ i would say) can get together to run them (for a support class) then i dont think they should be allowed to run at national level this winter.

[rice98w]

i have personally stopped moaning about the shells now...even though it still peeves me off that i have 40quids worth of shell sitting there, but there are alot more people that are still mad about the situation. anyway lets not talk about shells again! ;)

and yes i say rules are rules :P for this season at least

[Pro_3_racer]

hey guys

isnt the sport supose to be fun, i can understand were matt is coming from but hen i can see were marcus and mike are as well, i think if he was to race at nationals then as long as he scored no points and was droped to last place in the finals( so he counld spoile it for every one else) then i think you should let him race, i think my car is fast with 6 dead 2000 cells and an old trinty stock motor so if it as of the above then let him race, dont have a go at me as i dont know the rules and i have never been to a 1/12 national as i only got my car last month lol

just rember it supose to be fun, even if you dont win etc

michael

[rice98w]

does no-one else see that its not the point if he wins, draws or loses! ???

[Pro_3_racer]

i can see the point but why cant he race, i know ruls are there but if he was just to race and have fun and score no points, and people dont even know he is there then why bother about him breaking the ruls( ok so it cant be ok for every thing) i can see the point but why cant he race

michael

[marcoski]

I am sorry Matt, but I feel you have been surrounded by rules for so long now you are blinkered by them. What was it you said once, "are the rules laminated and kept by the bedside?" - LOL

[Doomanic]

Got to say, I agree with Matt. :o
Unless there is enough for a seperate heat, it is not fair to allow them to run at nationals.
What if they ruin someone else's run?
Putting them in a low heat is not enough, just because they are the slow blokes. Does being slow remove your right to an equal chance during qualifying?

[Pro_3_racer]

well yes but if he cant score no piont and there for get no higher them if he finshes first the so be it and the guy that come second has really won the race, and i know when im chasing someone to get first i know i driver better same as when i have people right be hind me i drive better so it might even help the slow people, but then it would be better if there was a seprat calls, but how many would you need to put it on, at my club there are 3 of us that run 12 now at nationls would 3 be ok or would it have to be 9 or 10 etc, as that would probly be hard to do etc, im sticking to my first idea but if there was a diffrent class then it would change and would be better lol

michael

[marcoski]

Just read the rules, and interestingly in mod 12th circuit, there is no motor limit, though it does of course say any BRCA electric board homologated motor. Bet they run 8s or 9s, so basil might have a problem keeping up!! Was just trying to persuade Matt to give a better reason than rules is rules :P

[Doomanic]

But rules is rules! Back off Brussels! (obscure comedy moment, a prize for the correct guess)

That is a rather spurious reason.

[marcoski]

I am not going to get that prize, but LOL anyway. Just tried mine on the fan load again, ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Craig]

Been watching this thread with some intrest. If there is someone who is willing to travel all those miles with his gear which is not cheap and put his car in to race knowing that he will not get a mention in the points then i think this guy should have a medal. To move forward it takes a few brave to show the way to the others. Yes rules are rules. Im sure that allowing someone to try something different will be ok. After all we all want more people racing thats more membership money and thats another bit of money the BRCA has to spend.

[rice98w]

Putting them in a low heat is not enough, just because they are the slow blokes. Does being slow remove your right to an equal chance during qualifying?

exactly!

ah yes....no motor limit is GOOD!!!! :D:D:D, but be careful reading those rules in the handbook, as because our season is out of sync some of them are incorrect. just so you know! ;)

matt

[Russ]

Dominic

You will see from my original post that I am very aware of the possibility of someones run being spoiled.
Then again we have no motor limit rule in 1/12.
We can have 8 turn motors geared to hell, this is a more likely source of spoiled runs than a guy who knows he is being watched cos he's running a brushless!
He would just loose his time at scutineering at the end of each run.
So technically we would be keeping to the letter of the rules!
and as Matt says, rules are rules!

[B_Final_Bob]

Does it actually state that it has to be a brushed motor??? Although it would have to be on the homolagated motor list.

Personally, I think that Phil ( or others for that matter ) should be able to race, if it wasn't for people like Colin Chapman with his "bend the rules slightly" way of building and designing cars, we wouldn't have Formula 1 where it is now.

It doesn't matter how fast anyone can go with a brushless motor system, there's always a bend at the end of the straight.

[Oliver]

OK Then look at it this way: if i turned up at a 12th national and wanted to run 6 cell modified i would be told no, i cant race. why? because thats the whole point of having rules! Or take bodyshells - you would be told you cant race with that shell. If your cars not 3mm high - same again.

Its not a question of not wanting "technology to move on" - and this doesnt apply just to 1:12th class - think about going to a touring national too.

I don't feel its right to make exceptions at national level. club level - yes i have no problems with that.

[rice98w]

thanks you oliver, presicely! ;)

[Russ]

Oliver

If you turned up at a national with a 6 cell modified, you wouldnt be told you could not race, you would be lent a stock motor and helped along every step of the way to get you racing :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

If you turned up with an illegal shell, again we would try all we could to get you racing.

Thats what 1/12 racing is about

Even at nationals :)

[Oliver]

Sorry if my previous post sounded far too serious - it wasnt meant to be a directed complain or anything like it. Then could the same not be applied to someone who turned up with a brushless?

OLI

PS, who's stock motor would it be... its gotta be faster than mine ;D (lol)

[gbevens]

At the EGM Russ pointed out that although we were not introducing any new classes to the rules this year it did not mean that they could not be run as a support class. Is this the answer??

I know what a grind it can be to get out of the bottom final as i only started to make it out of it last year, my objection would come if there was no cinsiderartion within the race to other drivers and Phil drilled an battle for first in the final (I'm sure he wouldn't though!). Remember that last year the cell issue had points attached to it, this already has no points! If he wants the points, I've got a speedo, would you lend him a motor Matt?

Love em or hate em brushless are coming, we need to see how they perform (somewhere)