Brushless moved from LB thread

[MADMOUSE41]

Going to do same and try it out,like Simmond said we would need a transfer over period or ballast added,should not be a problem.Interesting to hear some of the top racers views on it,just spoke to Wee D from here he agrees...Mouse

[Lee Carr]

I think you may find that a brushless motor weighs more than a brushed motor, so extra weight is already added by the motor alone ;)

[AEDave]

mmmm Been away for a while and contemplating a return now my (full size!) Mini is finished.

I would welcome brushless as I think the V12 is more fun with a bit more power (albeit no faster round the oval in all probability!)

I think the class does need to evolve somewhat to keep people interested, and for me this would be a good move. I used to run a v12 with a 17 turn single that went really well - about the performance of a six cell saloon without the weight penalty, if the brushless does the same its all good.

It would probably be best to run these as a separate class, but therein lies a problem, dividing the class in 2 would potentially halve the entry on both, not a good idea. I see Hots run stock rods with great success and also 2.0 litre hot rods as well as the full blown hot rods. Adding another class would make race nights a bit long to say the least!

Oh well see what today's AGM brings......maybe even countersunk screws will be allowed!

[mardavehq]

Yes Mardave Brushless Class for 2009 and YES countersunk chassis's are in :eek:

[Simond001]

Yes Mardave Brushless Class for 2009 and YES countersunk chassis's are in :eek:

What brushless systems are allowed, in what class.

[AEDave]

Blimey 21st century stuff here!!!

OK Chris what are the rules for brushless, I want one now!!! Hopefully mardave will supply all motors/speedos to keep the level playing field? What prices do you envisage and will it be a separate class?

Back to the loft this week to countersink my second chassis ready for next year!

[stok217]

Its only the mardave supply'ed brushless system

[stok217]

£80 aint it chris?

[Lee Carr]

£80 aint it chris?

I beleive so....:D

Motor is NOT a 540 size either

[stok217]

its pretty small as all at the hotrod worlds saw

[stok217]

Looks like i will have to save my pennies up to get a vrx with brushless in now :( i carnt afford this atm which wont help tho but you will get more racing now running a brushed and brushless at one meeting :D

[Team Tom]

The brushless Hotrod class will be run along the current Hotrod class at nationals.

I beleive from estimated rumours that the mardave system will cos in the region of about £80

[MADMOUSE41]

So we now have 2 Hot-Rod classes is one going to be called 2 litre and other National?.New chassis is circuit designed hence why no-one runs the silver bits on a oval......

So nothing changes person making kit loses money over sales of motors,rest of us have to not eat as much,save fuel etc so we can race.Now 2 cars more batteries,suddenly 1\12th Hot-Rods have become expensive or for the elite few........

Thank all, Southern Ireland is not making change,I can defend my Irish Republic Hot-Rod Championship on a even keel...Mouse

[stok217]

Or mad mouse you just run one car? :D

[Lee Carr]

Why O Why do some think the change over to brushless (which you DON'T have to buy if you don't want to!!) is going to be mega expensive???

Think about it for a few minutes

Speedo max price £59.95 how many out there run Speedmasters?

How many motors do you go through in a year (me about 4 or 5)

Plus cotton bud, motor cleaner, BHP in a can, Meat Juice etc, etc

Now add the above together = £100.00+ for poss a years racing!

STRAP a £80 brushless system and FORGET IT so long as you oil the bearings every now and again there NO need to worry :rolleyes:

I personally think this may help the section, as it'll premote closer racing and you've less to worry about during the day

I'm all for cheaper, closer racing any day of the week :D

Please excuse any spelling mistakes

[AEDave]

madmouse, what a totally cynical view!

Mardave are at the centre of our hobby and without them there would be no Hot Rod racing - fact. It is also a fact that companies must make a profit so that they can keep investing and keep the hobby up to date. I welcome the move to brushless and I will keep eating yet run 2 cars - you have a choice, if you want to stick with the current rules thats fine, no one is forcing you to do anything different.

Dear oh dear I thought I caused enough rumpus suggesting escs in stockcars, but from what I have seen mouse you are in a different league!!!

Oh and how can YOU decide what southern Ireland do? the majority MAY support brushless - why should you alone dictate to the majority?

[stok217]

Why O Why do some think the change over to brushless (which you DON'T have to buy if you don't want to!!) is going to be mega expensive???

Think about it for a few minutes

Speedo max price £59.95 how many out there run Speedmasters?

How many motors do you go through in a year (me about 4 or 5)

Plus cotton bud, motor cleaner, BHP in a can, Meat Juice etc, etc

Now add the above together = £100.00+ for poss a years racing!

STRAP a £80 brushless system and FORGET IT so long as you oil the bearings every now and again there NO need to worry :rolleyes:

I personally think this may help the section, as it'll premote closer racing and you've less to worry about during the day

I'm all for cheaper, closer racing any day of the week :D

Please excuse any spelling mistakes

Edit speedo maxium £65 aint it now?

[Lee Carr]

Yep that's true Nick, but when does that price come into effect? :confused:

[MADMOUSE41]

madmouse, what a totally cynical view!

Mardave are at the centre of our hobby and without them there would be no Hot Rod racing - fact. It is also a fact that companies must make a profit so that they can keep investing and keep the hobby up to date. I welcome the move to brushless and I will keep eating yet run 2 cars - you have a choice, if you want to stick with the current rules thats fine, no one is forcing you to do anything different.

Dear oh dear I thought I caused enough rumpus suggesting escs in stockcars, but from what I have seen mouse you are in a different league!!!

Oh and how can YOU decide what southern Ireland do? the majority MAY support brushless - why should you alone dictate to the majority?

South currently run Fireball 17d modified motors in the Hot-Rods,which are quick enough on their long oval try 70 feet long.But at present no track is running and they are not part of BRCA they are in Europe...so rules for next year stay as is thats how I know.

And sorry mate not in a different league love to see all classes run escs,and suppose in time will have to run what everyone else does..or find another hobby..Mouse

[stok217]

Yep that's true Nick, but when does that price come into effect? :confused:

1st of jan i think well next season anway :p
dont do anything for me tho xrs for me

[Lee Carr]

1st of jan i think well next season anway :p
dont do anything for me tho xrs for me

Right cheers Nick :D

I too run a XRS great speedo for the price ;) But will be trying a different Brushless to what Mr W has at the moment to see for myself then maybe upgrade to the Mardave once I see where next years Nats are held for Hot Rods :D;)

[stok217]

I have a problem cash to get a new car with brushless i might see if i can be sponcer'd by mardave ;) LOL
part of this junior program i think chris has?

[Lee Carr]

Why a new car? I'll just be strapping mine into the Hot Rod I have now :p Unless there is sponsership going for the nearly 40's program lol :D

[redleader]

Why a new car? I'll just be strapping mine into the Hot Rod I have now :p Unless there is sponsership going for the nearly 40's program lol :D

hmm, a veterans class:p

[Lee Carr]

hmm, a veterans class:p

Yeah that sounds much better ;):D

[stok217]

I want to keep one in brushed and another in brushless ;) a peice of history soon!

[MADMOUSE41]

Yeah that sounds much better ;):D

Yeah mate Martys 50 soon,with a 30 year old girlfriend..still hope for us veterans yet...Mouse

[mardavehq]

Mouse you realy have lost the plot mate
we all know Your history and you are starting to upset people who put loads of investment into this section.
So please before you post have a reality chack and think before you post.
Iam sure i will now get shot dowm by yourself for this but hey ho iam only a little car producer trying to keep its Very Loyal customer base happy

Chris
Mardave

[stok217]

Chris how much is the new brushless you have aint it £80?
Nick

[MADMOUSE41]

Mouse you realy have lost the plot mate
we all know Your history and you are starting to upset people who put loads of investment into this section.
So please before you post have a reality chack and think before you post.
Iam sure i will now get shot dowm by yourself for this but hey ho iam only a little car producer trying to keep its Very Loyal customer base happy

Chris
Mardave

When I returned to racing after 6 months away,you where one of the first I phoned same day I joined this forum.From what I remember you said it will take you along time to get any respect from mainland UK.Fine I can live with that but as one of a few people who,has invested lots of money,time,effort into trying to keep 1\12th oval alive over here, think it is you who needs to think before they type.

I travelled to Ballymoney on Thursday night to race with 3 people,Wee D,Roy,Alister S you know the journey,why to keep moral up.Plus to give Wee D some money for your products,and if by me buying a building,spending 6 months at classic car shows with Mardaves on show,says Iam not still totally focused on keeping this type of racing alive,then what more can I do....

You are expecting me to post on here,and have ago at you well it aint going happen,not now,not ever. You and I dont like each other but, like you said on phone Iam very ethusiastic about these models.Not on here to start a fight with anyone,but we all have our own views and ideas fact.

You can take this post whatever way you wish,maybe the sales of your product does not mean much to you,over here.First and foremost I love racing these cars,suits me to have 6 months away from them,I have alife with classic cars as well,come winter Iam back out again still keen,still having FUN...Mouse

[mardavehq]

So Mouse you are so quick to forget your comments to me face to face and over the phone. One i have never said i don't like you !!! when you attack others near to me then you loose respect. Lots of well respected people use RC Race chat for information and Chatting to others about The real world of model car racing (the Real world) So when i see post after post i say here we go again, DCR And Roy have my full respect and many others share this.
So Continue to do as you wish. This as i have said to you on other forum's you have been banned from this is my last reply to you, And Good luck

[OB964]

Thats great news about the Brushless, surely this will see Brushed motors phased out in this class now.

I can't wait to start racing brushless, im sick of messing about with water dipping etc, bring on the brushless!!

[Macca]

I for one welcome brushless and its a step in the right direction. No more faffing around with motors and in the long run it will be cheaper.

Hats off to Wilko for moving the class forward.

[Sam Gray]

got to agree with you guys. brushless in mardaves, well hotrods atleast is the furture. Less messing around with running in like you say and cleaning before each run.
Nice to hear all postives after yesterday.:)

[Johnnyc]

Here here, a good move and a move with the times. Agreed that there is no point being at the pinnacle of technology as cost does need to be kept down, so now is a good time foir the move as the technology as leveled from a cost perspective.

From a club perspesctive it would also be good to keep brushed alive and speeds between the two systems at a comparative level for racing.

Its a shame that numbers are not big enough yet to go the 'TC' route and have two classes where brushless is the top class and brushed as the stock\clubman (i think). But then I (my personal opinion) is that we have enough classes at the moment.

So I too look forward to brushless escpecially as Junior blew his oval at the 'Sussex' so no point in forking out for a new brushed speedo and poor old me will just go for one of the new motors. I believe they are elgal now :D

Lets focus on the racing and having fun.
Politics is for Downing street and local authorities and fat men in grey suits (and rubber gimp ones at weekends).

[Team Tom]

Here here, a good move and a move with the times. Agreed that there is no point being at the pinnacle of technology as cost does need to be kept down, so now is a good time foir the move as the technology as leveled from a cost perspective.

From a club perspesctive it would also be good to keep brushed alive and speeds between the two systems at a comparative level for racing.

Its a shame that numbers are not big enough yet to go the 'TC' route and have two classes where brushless is the top class and brushed as the stock\clubman (i think). But then I (my personal opinion) is that we have enough classes at the moment.

So I too look forward to brushless escpecially as Junior blew his oval at the 'Sussex' so no point in forking out for a new brushed speedo and poor old me will just go for one of the new motors. I believe they are elgal now :D

Lets focus on the racing and having fun.
Politics is for Downing street and local authorities and fat men in grey suits (and rubber gimp ones at weekends).

hear hear!;)

[Simmo]

So are brushless motors going to run alongside the brushed?

(surely not?)

Unless the brushless is set up it matches the speed of the brushed? Otherwise you ARE going to need two different classes? As we all know the speed of a well set up hotrod. If these are to be made faster (brushless) I can see some high speed crashed coming up, especially at power tracks like HOTS..

Just my two pence worth.

(Nice to see a step forward though..)

[Sam Gray]

they are 2 diffrent classes, that are going to be run seprate.:cool:

[AEDave]

personally I will almost certainly start racing again and it will be brushless - its good to have some modern technology! I suspect most current hotrod racers will opt for brushless so I think the problem will solve itself.

Hots cater for 3 other levels of hotrod to my knowledge - rookie, stock and 2 litre. As at least stock use mechanical ecs they will not go brushless so there will be a class to cater for all.

Be interesting to see how many will convert to brushless - maybe we should start a poll!

[Team Tom]

have to remind you dave, this brushless is only being run as a seperate class at National events.

[AEDave]

So just out of interest how about stating your intentions for next years racing?

Strikes me there are 3 options:

1) continue race brushed only
2) move to brushless only
3) race in both classes.

No right or wrong answers of course, might just give us an overall view of how popular each class might be and may therefore help cubs gauge how to handle the new class.

For me its 2 and possibly 3!

[AEDave]

have to remind you dave, this brushless is only being run as a seperate class at National events.

But how can anyone get their cars set up unless they can race at clubs before the nationals?

If there is a significant speed difference it will hardly be fair to run both classes together....

[Team Tom]

correct dave, which is why they are being run at nationals.

I beleive that such a big change such as gouing brushless needs to be tested at all national events in the calendar for 2009. So what better way to do it than make a seperate "test" class for them.

Then in 2009's agm it may get voted in to replace brushed in hotrods.

[AEDave]

Sounds a bit of a dilemma to me! How many are going to buy brushless just so they can race them at 3 or 4 events in the year.........?????

[Johnnyc]

Be interesting to see how many will convert to brushless - maybe we should start a poll!

Polls aarrghh :D Please no, not more polls.......... Can we wait for the BRCA AGM and then let the individual clubs decide.

Yes HOTs run a couple a hot rod derivatives but those not going to brushless and the likes of bangers, saloons and stock would all remain as brushed, so would this mean that the new Mardave motor will exist in parallel with the brushless options....

Hmm more food for thought but no more polls please......... :D

[morbid]

have to remind you dave, this brushless is only being run as a seperate class at National events.

Got the club AGM coming up in november. This may get proposed and voted in then?.

The hot rod drivers had best turn up and vote or it could all end in:'(

Surely brushless would make saloons cheaper in the course of the year (club level). Just a thought

[Team Tom]

im talking brca agm's melvin.

i beleive that to become BRCA legal the brushless system has to be tested at all the nationals in 2009.

once it has had its "trial" as such, it can then get voted in at the next brca Agm as the hotrod's new "power plant" and then would become the standard setup in a BRCA spec hotrod.

I think the main thing people forget is that BRCA Contruction and race rules are only mandatory at BRCA sancionted events. Any other clubs/events/championships/one off race meetings can run whatever rules they like.

[Simmo]

I just hope HOTS sticks to its guns, and keeps the two classes seperate. (thats what I was getting at) You already have a fair divide between the fast hotrods and the "not so fast" . this is going to be even worse with BL and Brushed mixed?

Or is this yet another class of hotrod to run at Hots??

I can see the words smash fest.

[Team Tom]

if brca rules for hotrods go brushless and they scrap brushed then hots will follow as the current hotrod rules at HOTs are brca rules.

but at its current state we have no intention of starting another new class. As said this brushless class voted in at the brca agm is only to be run at nationals for 2009 season

[MADMOUSE41]

As normal with this section,they propose something before actually thinking about it first......Not decided by racers just those who think they know it all........Mouse

[Johnnyc]

well guys lets read the changes first and then the individuals and clubs alike can determine how they will be implemented within their club environment.

It is difficult for a select few to make decisions for the coming year but far easier for the masses to criticise and harp on like old woman at a WI meeting......... So as it seems that most are not happy with anything that is suggested about most topics, then I feel that next years AGM will have loads of input and many more people attending.


:D

[Stox216]

Clubs can run whatever they want as has already been stated,

BRCA nationals are different, it will definately be two seperate class's Brushed and Brushless.

[Simond001]

Seems to me that it is a sensible decision. Allow Brushless as National events, alow individual clubs to decide what they want to run on a weekly basis.

I can see the natural progresssion at Hots being the Stockrod (manual SC), 2Ltr Hotrod (ESC and brushed), Hotrod (Brushless).

This would allow those who want to stay brushed to race in the 2ltr class, and thise who want to invest in brushless to race in Hotrods.

The only issue then would be what cells to use in 2Ltr, as currently they are limited to 3300 club cells. If the club voted in open cells (BRCA List) the cost of competing would rise significantly from stockrod to 2ltr, whereas currently the upgrade cost is £40 from stock to 2ltr, and approx £50 from 2ltr to Hotrod.

I'm looking forward to brushless, and hopefully in a year we will see them in mini's as well. In a perfect world we could have a 9.5 in saloon stocks. Then they could compensate for the extra weight with extra power!

[MADMOUSE41]

N.Ireland gets over looked as part of UK,one Hot-Rod class here.....Mouse

[Lee Carr]

if brca rules for hotrods go brushless and they scrap brushed then hots will follow as the current hotrod rules at HOTs are brca rules.

but at its current state we have no intention of starting another new class. As said this brushless class voted in at the brca agm is only to be run at nationals for 2009 season

Tom if your club runs to BRCA rules then how can you stop some one turning up and racing a Brushless Hot Rod?? :confused:

Why do people think when the word BRUSHLESS pops up that it means its going to be faster????? If you had attended the AGM on Sunday, there was over 45 minutes on this proposal alone, it was rushed through and the general consensus was that if needed the speedos could be ALL set to a certain limit to emulate a G2 motor.....So in fact brushless may NOT be quicker than a brushed, it'll only give you consistent speed for the whole 5 minutes rather than the fist 3 or 4 minutes :D

[redleader]

N.Ireland gets over looked as part of UK,one Hot-Rod class here.....Mouse

MOUSE....ITS UP TO THE DRIVERS IN IRELAND TO DECIDE HOW MANY CLASSES YOU RUN WITH. YOUR NOT BEING OVER LOOKED!!!!

[MADMOUSE41]

So you are saying certain team drivers will be equal to everyone else,doubtful even someone on committe doubts that...Mouse

[MADMOUSE41]

edited

[AEDave]

speedos could be ALL set to a certain limit to emulate a G2 motor.

Unfortunately if that is the case someone will find out how to set it up for higher performance, there are some very technically able people running v12s!!!:rolleyes:

[Lee Carr]

Unfortunately if that is the case someone will find out how to set it up for higher performance, there are some very technically able people running v12s!!!:rolleyes:

As far as I know the Mtroniks BL speedo has 4 pins?? to connect a programer?? to it....I suppose once all the speedo's have been programed they would cut the pins off??

Just a thought? No idea if that would happen?? :confused:

[redleader]

Thats what was agreed at the AGM, and Chris Wilkinson confirmed that this would be done.:)

[Team Tom]

Tom if your club runs to BRCA rules then how can you stop some one turning up and racing a Brushless Hot Rod?? :confused:



Oh ok, now have been told that the brushless formula is not just for nationals, is a completely stand along BRCA hotrod formula.

We cant run another formula at my club so we will see what the clubs AGM says

[ascarman]

I like the idea of brushless if it means not having to buy another g2 i am in favour :cool:
Now make them all the same power right from the start and make it so the best driver wins not the driver with the best batteries etc

Just my 3p worth