let's put together 4 races or so

[Lohan]

I don't know about you all, but don't you all think we should put togethr bout 4 races?

I suggest 4 races from about late may - september - dates not clashing with the nationals.

locations proposed

Aldershot

West London

Brooklands?

Snetterton?

Eastbourne?

I am suggesting flowing tracks...

what do you all think?

BTW where you all gonna get tyres? - I know GRP and BSR do the tyres - help me and my RC10L3 235mm. I think my 5 year old unused tyres are only good for washing the dishes.:eek:

[Andy Sawyer]

how about a track or 2 a bit further north ?
Bedworth ?
Halifax ?

as for tires, Corally are still listing all the compounds, so an order through your local model shop should see them come through Horizon.
Corally are also listing 235mm body shells as well.

are we going to sort a few rules ?
4 cell or 6 cell ?
brushed and/or brushless ?
5 minute races ?

there are at least 3 people in Derby that cant wait to start running these again

[Andy Sawyer]

plus there are 2 possible indoor meetings we could use
Chesterfield AMC summer shoot out (28m x 12m)
and Derby charity event (30m x 14m)

I ran my Corally C10X at Chesterfield 1/12 GP, very good, plenty quick enough on 4 cell

[part-time racer]

Could a heat for F1's be included?
I bought a TRF F201 for the EuroCup in 2005 and used it for 1 season. Then the class was dropped for some stupid reason :mad: (which in my opinion killed the series) and the car has been in the loft since.

[yokomoman!!!]

yeh I was thinking about this a few weeks ago. I would be up for it as well if f1 was included. I suggest how about having 4 rounds around the country.


Midlands Bedworth
East angler Snetterton
South West London
West Wrexham

I have a a f102 all the trimmings. just need to sort the rules out as the f201 is AWD maybe they sould have a higher turn motor? something like f101/2/3 have 21turn motors and f201 27 turn? like you said tyres are a problem but look on the bay.

[jo90]

Guys, I love the idea of this, just a few things to mull over.

Sponsor - Though you are looking at a small series, and more a friendly than a competitive it might be worth trying to just get a small sponsor, or a few small ones (or even a big one). Having something more to offer will entice more drivers. It would be great to get up to 50 drivers to one of these series.

Rules - Decide on one person to draw up rules, submit them, then have a mini AGM on here to constructively work out the little niggles, then vote on them. For instance alot of guys who have 1/10th cars run 1/12th so have 4 cell packs. Where as a guy running a TC will have 6 cell packs. Would be good to iron out what you will run, and don't forget you have LiPo as well.

Race structure - Given some of the kit that might be used could be a few years old 5 minutes might be the best race length, but again bash this out with constructive terms.

Race location - I agree, if you are going to do this you need to try and get as many to each leg possible. But, this cant meen that drivers only turn up to legs local. IF you are going to do this you will need a strong backing at each round as tracks cost money to run.

Aditions - As Richard said, why not have a heat or heats for F1 cars as well. I know your looking Pro-10, but having a few extra added heats will again bolster the numbers at each round. Maybe get guys with the tamiya 2wd tourer out there to, and even those with an old 1/12th to run on tarmac - would be fun.

Id love to get involved, but this year I know im not going to have the extra £££'s to get a car, fill it with gear etc. See how you get on organising this as it may take a year to get this off the ground. As for dates id try and get them during the central part of the year away from other events, but when it is warm and hopefully dry !

[Groove]

If there was a f1 heat for 4wd or 2wd I would be there in an instant!

[mxrich]

yeh I was thinking about this a few weeks ago. I would be up for it as well if f1 was included. I suggest how about having 4 rounds around the country.


Midlands Bedworth
East angler Snetterton
South West London
West Wrexham

I have a a f102 all the trimmings. just need to sort the rules out as the f201 is AWD maybe they sould have a higher turn motor? something like f101/2/3 have 21turn motors and f201 27 turn? like you said tyres are a problem but look on the bay.
The dealer in Aldershot ( I think) sells the Cross F1's and Cross is back in business. That means foam and rubber tyres for those cars and the F101's 2's and 3's along with the Duratrax. Tamiya's new F103RM comes with foams also just like they had before and should be available now. 1/12th foam also fits these rims very well and work great. I hope this helps everyone. Good luck on the racing.

[yokomoman!!!]

With f1 cars how much difference in speed is a 4wd f1 car compared to a 2wd in a racE?. also what is better for this sort of car foam or rubber for?

[part-time racer]

In my opinion the best combo for the F1 cars would be the 4 wheel drive kit with foams.
I have never tried this as the EuroCup made us use the tyre with groves in like the real thing.
On a straight the 2 wheel drive car should be quicker but over the corse of a lap the F201 would win.

[Andy Sawyer]

The original Pro10 rules still exist
BRCA hand book 2005 (they weren't printed in later years)
I have just down loaded this from the BRCA archive.

The only thing we need to decide on is 4 cell and/or 6 cell (and Lipo)
then adjust the weight limit.

I would propose that we do go to 4 cell.
When Pro10 was last run with 6 cell 2000's you could just get a 14 or 13 turn round for 5 minutes, and this was at the limit of the rear tires.

[yokomoman!!!]

maybe the best way to go is ass more weight to the f201 or highter turn motors. so they are slower down the stright so were the f101.2.3 lose out in the in field can make it up on the strights should make for lots of overtaking.

[MarkB]

Sounds to me like there are two themes here...those who can't wait for Pro 10s to be raced again (hi Andy ;)), and those who want to race F1's again.

Rather than setting up a meeting just for these classes, you might find it easier to add them to an existing meeting. That gives the host club the "safety" of income from those already runing, and means you haven't got to find your own space in a very busy calendar!

I know Snetterton has a meeting coming up in May that would have space..so a word with that nice Mr Guest might pay dividends ;)

Or run it on a Saturday!

My view on rules...

- I'm with Andy that the Pro 10 class should run 4-cell, and we'll find which brushless motors best suit them. Five minute run time.

- F1s have got a lot to cover. The very old Tamya F1s won't be that competitive against the Corally etc F1 kits, or the 4wd Tamiya kits on a technical circuit. I'd see them having a weight advantage - something like 50 or 100g as more than that is tricky to fit onto a chassis :p

Good luck, and if (actually when!!!) my RC10L comes back I'll be up for a round.

Cheers
Mark

[Mark Stiles]

The original Pro10 rules still exist
BRCA hand book 2005 (they weren't printed in later years)
I have just down loaded this from the BRCA archive.

The only thing we need to decide on is 4 cell and/or 6 cell (and Lipo)
then adjust the weight limit.

I would propose that we do go to 4 cell.
When Pro10 was last run with 6 cell 2000's you could just get a 14 or 13 turn round for 5 minutes, and this was at the limit of the rear tires.

Pussy :p

I hear where you're coming from, but why not leave it open? If 6 cells is going to cause that much of an issue then people will soon realise. Personally I think they will be too slow with 12th scale power plants fitted. Maybe 5 cell is the answer?

Having said that, 5 minute runtime might allow the use of 3.0 and 3.5 motors with 4 cell, which would make up for the extra weight and larger size of the cars compared to 12th.

Me and partnumber (james stewart) were discussing how we would get a pro 10 version of the cyclone 12 up and running. It seems all we'd need is a different chassis, axle and wheels, plus a shell. So its do-able without much effort at all.

[Andy Sawyer]

you could only go 5 cell on cars that run the cells down the centre

i think 4 cell will be enough once we get them sorted out

there wont be much extra weight, the old limit was 1200g, for 4 cell i think we should drop this to 1000g. something this weight that is only 2WD will be quick enough

the new Corally Pro10 is only a scaled up 1/12, it uses the same T bar and front blocks the axel mountings on the motor pod are higher and it uses a wider rear axel with differend wheel mounts, but that is all.

[Mark Stiles]

you could only go 5 cell on cars that run the cells down the centre

i think 4 cell will be enough once we get them sorted out

there wont be much extra weight, the old limit was 1200g, for 4 cell i think we should drop this to 1000g. something this weight that is only 2WD will be quick enough

the new Corally Pro10 is only a scaled up 1/12, it uses the same T bar and front blocks the axel mountings on the motor pod are higher and it uses a wider rear axel with differend wheel mounts, but that is all.

With the mass of the current BL speedos, plus if you run an RX pack, I reckon you could get the weight distribution about right with 5 cells, even on an associated style car.

Bear in mind we are talking about racing on outdoor tracks, which are significantly larger and wider than the tracks we race 12th scale on. Therefore I dont think a bit of extra power is going to harm anyone.

Once I have a car up and running I will try 4, 5 and 6 cells. What we are discussing here is pure speculation until we try it. I saw your car run at Chesterfield with 4 cells andy, and to be honest it looked slow, even on an indoor track.

[Andy Sawyer]

old motor, old cells and it ran more than 5 minutes

the problem isnt the out right speed, it is how they accelerate
6 cells with a brushless will shred rear tires
how long do your touring car tires last ? and they are hard rubber with 4WD

[jo90]

so would 6 cell 6.5t / 4 cell 3.5t work ?? the 6 cell say 1200g, the 4 cell 1000g

[CatXLS]

Err did we not agree already months ago about the rules, ie there wont be any? Making rules before people have experience running the cars is probably not that good an idea. If people think it'll be plenty fast enough running 4-cell then run it, ditto for 6-cell or lipo. I dont really understand peoples worries about it being too fast, it seems pretty obvious that its quite easy to make a pro 10 "too fast" with modern equipment, just like its easy to make an 10th off road car too fast nowadays. They'll be an ideal wind/power combination for any track & so thats another reason why its silly to make a rule when some tracks are a fair bit smaller than others. If anything, all we need IMO is a tyre rule ie something soft enough to be fun but lasts a reasonable amount of time. This would be good so people know what tyre to run & dont spend the whole day swapping ends & also keep costs down so people dont spend large amounts experimenting & looking for advantages.

As for tracks, talk has been mostly south-east orientated up untill recently so maybe it would be good to organise some northern and southern tracks to accomodate most & maybe a couple of venues in the middle we can all make the effort to get to? Im not that keen on huge amounts of travelling at this stage to be honest, I dont know what everyone elses thoughts are? A few tracks that came up before were Aldershot, WLRC, Brooklands & Crystal Palace, all south east but seemingly all happy to run Pro10 during normal meetings (not sure bout brooklands) which is probably a good idea early on.

Id like to see them breathing a bit & running on more flowing larger 1/8th scale tracks rather than have speeds capped and running on touring car tracks. Another factor is that the rubber and foam laid down by TC & Pro10 dont really seem to complement each other, rather make it more slippery for each other & 1/8th use foams.

Lets have a seperate thread and nominate some tracks?

PS. On the subject of lower speeds, done some more research into my hair brained scheme of slowing Pro10 down by running a single 3.7v lipo cell (With a reciever pack). Been reliably informed the low voltage would work with a Novak GTB. Buy 1 lipo saddle pack & you have your 2 hardcased packs ready to go! Not tested it for speed yet, guestimate with a 3.5 would be similar to a 19t TC.

[NiMo]

If anyone is interested, Aldershot is running F1/Pro10 as it's Electric Outlaw class.
No motor limits or cells limits.
F1 books in as Formula F1
Pro10 books in as Formula F2
Runs as one class but separate points.

Every one running so far has a totally different motor / cell set up, and none are as mentioned in these posts.

My car (for reference):
F103GT (190mm Toyota GT-one shell)
13.5BL with GTB
7.4v LiPo
IC Touring Foams (F-40 R-38 with additive)

I am thinking of going 10.5 or 8.5, but my biggest problem is weight, the car is too light for the bumps.

So i would suggest an open year so that things can be trialed first.

[Lohan]

Hi gents

I think we've got to keep it open - let's not kill it before it starts - in fact - why not have some very simple rules -

solid rear axle
anything up to 7.4 lipo (or whatever the equivalent)
any motor

Let's not kill a class before it even starts

In fact being unlimited and super fast was the original appeal - from what I heard people chose less powerful motors even in their heyday than was allowed due to the cars super cornering speed.

once I'm married - done my honeymoon - and the wife is bored of me - that'll be about june - I'm gonna come and race - albeit badly as usual.

BTW where are people buying their tyres?

Lohan

[RobW]

Totally agree - keep it open and hopefully get more people interested.

If the weather is fine I am hoping to get to Aldershot with my 200mm RC10L. Have trued some old tyres and put together some 4 and 6 cell 4200IBs packs. Going to try a 9T brushed motor to start with because I have one lying around.

Rob

[Andy Sawyer]

Ran my Corally C10X (235mm) at Chesterfield on Saturday night, tried 4, 5 and 6 cell with 8 and 9 turns.

8x2 on 4 cell 42mm/r very good, driveable and fast on the straight
8x2 on 5 cell 34mm/r good but geting a bit much, too much power for the infield
9x2 on 6 cell 28mm/r totaly insane, far too much power, had worn out all rear grip by 4 minutes (grey rear, purple front tires)

whilst the car was drivable (4 cell) I was lapping just quicker than the top 1/12

Andy

[jo90]

How about for the first season then only have a few rules, these being around the amount of volts allowed (to let LiPo in as im sure alot of TC drivers will be on these now), BL and BR motors (no wind limit), set weight (make it realistic, but not over heavy) and that races are 5 minutes ? From that you can then get a jist of how things are working out for people and then adopt rules at the season end in a mini AGM.

I think id be definately up for this by 2009 (i know its next year but even still) as im sure by then id have enough kit to run both cars.

[Mark Stiles]

whilst the car was driveable (4 cell) I was lapping just quicker than the top 1/12


I find that hard to believe with a bigger, slightly heavier car, unless the 'top 1/12' car was significantly slower than you are with a 1/12

You say 5/6 cell was too fast - but thats on an indoor track of about 2m width. We are talking about running them on outdoor tracks that are over 3m wide in most cases, so I dont think the extra power is an issue personally.:rolleyes:

I'm sticking to my guns - let people run whatever the hell they like, as long as the car qualifies as a 1/10th pan/pro10 car (ie solid axle and pod, foam tyres etc...)

[part-time racer]

C10X on order;)

[Andy Sawyer]

The 1/12 was Roger and it took him untill the 4th round to beat my fastest lap

I might run more cells out side but i doubt it.
even with 5 cell the car was struggeling to put the power down on carpet
and the rear tires were shot by 5 minutes.

running the 8 on 4 cell, the car was easy to drive, quick enough and after 5 minutes i had to discharge over 1000mA, so there is plenty of room to gear up or run a hotter wind.

Andy

[mark barord]

I am with Andy on this one, four cells will keep the cars controllable, fast and fun. If you want to allow people to run 6 cell/lipo's then run 6 cell/lipo with 19t/10.5 against 4 cell open and no weight limits.

[CatXLS]

Sounds like there will have to be an open class & a 19t eqivalent class. I think anything that means people HAVE to buy a lot of extra gear - on top of the car, spares & tyres - to join in the fun, isnt a very good idea. For me running to a 4-cell rule would mean I need to buy some new 4-cell packs (or reconfigure my 6 cell packs every time I want to use the Pro10, not something I want to do) & a 3.5 motor (As it is I plan on just chucking my 2wd off road setup in there which is fairly mild - 7.5L + 6 cells)

[Mark Payne]

hi all
I'm thinking about having a go at this!

My concern over 4cell is about extracting all that energy in 5mins. Chris kerswell did some 4cell tc testing using some of his 12th packs and it screwed them up.

We run 4cell in 12th but we have much lighter cars and 8min dicipline.

Its time for change! Proten should be ten mins racing! Then the duration requirement will bring sanity to the hp we strap in. This would also allow lipo.

cheers
mark

[Rob Fitzgerald]

Do ProtoForm read RaceChat ;)



click here (http://www.prolineracing.com/p-571-corvette-c6-r.aspx)

[NiMo]

One idea I had for class rules a few years back was to use the 'F' ratings on most Race Control softwares, and to run 4 different class rules with 4 lots of points, but to run as a single main class, like LeMans and ALMS.
These were the classes I had thought of (updated for latest motors/cells):

LMP 1 - DDR cars only, Prototype Shells, Any motor, 7.4v max, Max chassis width 235mm (think that is Pro10 width), Minimum weight 1100g.

LMP 2 - Rear wheel drive non DDR cars only, Prototype Shells, Any motor, 7.4v max, Max chassis width 200mm, Minimum weight 1300g, Max rear tyre width 40mm.

GT 1 - DDR cars only, Road based GT shells, Minimum wind motors (BR - 19T/ BL 10.5), 7.4v max, Max chassis width 200mm, Minimum weight 1100g.

GT 2 - Rear wheel drive non DDR cars only, Road based GT shells, Minimum wind motors (BR - 19T/ BL 10.5), 7.4v max, Max chassis width 200mm, Minimum weight 1300g, Max rear tyre width 30mm.

(DDR - Direct Drive / Solid rear axle)
(non DDR is like converted Touring cars, where a central Diff and independent rear suspension must be used)
(Minimum wind means down to, so includes 27T and 13.5 and silver can)

[RobW]

Finally got the chance to try my car with 4 and 6 cells at Aldershot last Sunday. Standard RC10L2 with a 9T motor.

Car with 4 cells felt quick and was really nice to drive – could drive round the sweeper flat out and pick my lines round the slower corners. Tyres were showing minimal sign of wear. Duration a little close but cells were very average and I could have played around with the gearing.

Unfortunately not quick enough on straight to keep up with 7.4v lipo guys. Ran with 6 cells and it was a rocket with no duration problems but nowhere near as nice to drive with a lot of understeer and front tyres starting to protest. Could lap around 0.5s a lap quicker.

Not sure how much of the change in handling was due to extra weight and how much due to extra power. Going to try a Lipo next time as that will get the weight down similar to the 4 cell position and answer that question.

If we ever get enough racers to worry about rules I think – based on this meeting - I would vote for a class with 4 cell and unlimited motors same as 12th.

Rob

[telboy]

It makes me laugh looking at all the talk about tyres not lasting.

Back when we used to run the corally F1's etc. with 6 cells and silly motors we always used to run green rear, blue fronts or the corally silver medium and hard compounds. Yes you'd get the odd chunk in a tyre but if you were careful a set of tyres would last 3 rounds of quali. And that was with addative too. But we used to just find a bit of old tyre, glue it on then true it back.:D (used to call ourselves - cheapo racing team - or something like that :p)
Most people run TC here, and they only get through the same amount of tyres every meeting.

Maybe have a rule of no addative and a minimum sets of tyres per meeting, forcing people to run harder tyres, or at least run a hard set for the first 3 quali, then get the softer set out for the last quali and final.

i think leaving it open will be the best option as far as clls is concerned, but put a weight limit on the class, for those that (will) run Lipo.

[NiMo]

I'm running Scale Nitro Foams on my F103GT
30mm wide 37's on the rear with additive.
Tyres may just last 2 meetings (4 qualifiers and 2 finals per meeting)

Still trying to get hold of the Kawahara 40mm rears

[stok217]

could you try 5 cells?

[NiMo]

Finally got hold of a pair of 40mm 37 Kawahara Rears
What a difference, loads of rear grip over normal 30mm rears
Even had to go to a softer front tyre just to get the car to turn
Made running the car (F103GT) much more fun with its 8.5BL

[nickyltw]

are any of you running in the north my f1 car needs something to race against