TRF414 - anyone got one?

[g4t2]

I was just interested to see how many people owned a TRF414 of any kind.

[Taffster]

Hi,

got a TA04-TRF - sort of half way house I guess you could say! 414 internals on a TA04 chassis

[Kev_Darke]

Rik, what is the 04-trf like as i am thinking about getting one? I already have the 04 pro but i don't want to spend loads of cash to hop that up to the 04 trf standard.

[Taffster]

Kev,

to be honest I can't tell you...I've not finished building it yet! I've been waiting for some anodised blue TRF shocks to replace the kit silver ones, but the spec speaks for itself. The chassis is incredibly stiff and so light.

I race indoors and I'm a bit loath to put the car though the abuse my TA04-SS gets...I might wait until I'm a bit better before I subject myself to the trauma of racing it! I'll send you a pm in due course

you have a PM

Rik

[g4t2]

The TA04 TRF is a nice car, did you get it from Japan? The only thing which puts me off it that it only seems to be able to accomadate stick pack formation of the cells. If you can find a part number for the ssg carbon spur holder in your manual I would much appreciate it as my TRF414M worlds replica has the SSG chassis, top deck and shock towers but I am after an SSG spur holder which I believe comes with the TRF TA04.

Thanks

[g4t2]

Rik, where do you race? I'd love to see the TA04 TRF in the "flesh" or ssg should I say!

[g4t2]

So no one else has a TRF414???? At my local club, we have three TRF414 WC reps including mine!

[Taffster]

I race at Stocksbridge, north Sheffield. As I said, it's still being built and I'll only race it when I can keep it out of the wall ;)

Rik

[Tamiya_Racer]

im so tempted to buy a world rep as i just got an offer one one. BUT I JUST BROUGHT THE SURKIARN EVO! ohhh.. im still so tempted. dunno yet!

[Mark_dsv]

Hi,

I have a Tamiya TRF 414M2, great car and drives well however for rookie (which I am) I would not recommend the Tamiya. You need quite a bit of skill to drive it properly. I have got also the Losi xxx-s graphite plus, much better car to set good lap times, easier to drive as well.

The 414 has got a one way drive, nice to have, however as a rookie you don't need it. One bit of advice, if you are running outdoors, the 414 is a bit of a nightmare because everything is open to the elements. I changed my diff's and one way centre pully very quickly to the aluminium ones, to prevent the plastic diffs being clogged up with tarr, sand etc. Quite a costly transformation but worth it.

Although I still have the Tamiya, I like my losi xxxs graphite plus better, also recently aquired a shaft drive, the yokomo MR4 TC SD SSG, great car. Again much easier to drive that the tamiya (similar as the losi). I have got a funny feeling that I won't be driving my tamiya again.

Cheers,

Mark

[g4t2]

Yeah I do agree it is definately not a car for beginners. I was given help with the setup and build at my local track which is lucky. How long have your M2 for?

[Mark_dsv]

Indeed the TRF 414M2 is not a car for beginners however I counter acted the M2 with going for the Futaba 3PK radio. Great radio (pistol type) because as a beginner you can adjust almost everthing to your needs, meaning the steering/throttle acceleration, speed etc can be slowed down hence you are not as twitchy on the track.

Back to my TRF 414 M2, I got it now 1/2 a year, don't get me wrong it's a great car and in conjuction with the radio I even managed to get my name on the board. But don't get yourself hung up on the Tamiya and being the world champion, it's still the driver who controls the car (I just tried to buy the best and hopefully in the process drive it well as well, doesn't work like that, hence me switching to the losi xxxs, what is a much easier car to drive, less nervous). I have to say the Yokomo (shaft drive) is also a great/complicated car however is easy to drive than the M2 ! Great road holding.

Cheers,

Mark

[g4t2]

Very true, the way I see it, if I buy the best equipment then at least it won't let me down, I can only then blame my own driving. If you ever want to sell you M2 tell me first as I am after one. I am thinking of buying a 3PK or a KO Propo Mars, would you recommend the 3PK?

Cheers

John

[Mark_dsv]

The 3PK is very good, if not the best. As I mentioned you can adjust absolutely everything and with a bit a trial and error you can set it up to your own needs. One of my racing buddies lent me his spare radio gear for one of my spare cars. A wee while ago I crashed my tamiya M2 (broke a shock tower) and was forced to run the spare car however not having the time to change my receiver in the spare car, hence I used the spare car with my buddies radio gear. Without being to negative, but a "pistol" radio without the possibility to adjust anything, I was all over the place, very difficult to drive, very twitchy and not able to get a decent lap in.

Would recommend the 3PK but it is not a cheap radio, however very much worth it especially if you are a beginner (I know the rules, if you want to know costs, place I bought it etc, just email me on: mwjvelden@hotmail.com. (not sure if I can give you my hotmail address, if this is against the rules administrator, apologies)

Cheers,

Mark

[sparcman]

Hi,

I've got one of the TRF414M2 cars, I have also "tricked" it up using titanium racing hinge pins, titanium screw set and titanium dog bones/CVD's. I've also just recieved from Japan the new super lightweight TRF414M2 specific blue anodised front and rear bulkheads and lightweigh anodised motor plate...still can't get my hans on the new silver SSG version of the TRF414M2 chassis though :-(

cheers

[g4t2]

Yeah the ssg looks sweet, trust me. My TRF 414M Worlds Replica is fully decked out with ssg...very nice.I may get the the lightweight parts...dunno about the motor plate though , it means I have to lose my limited edition numbered one...boohoo

[Mark_dsv]

Hi

I as well bought a titanium screw set however for my Yokomo MR4 TC SD, defenitely a good buy because I don't have any problems getting the hex screws out of the chassis.

I have real problems with getting the hex screws out of my tamiya TRF414M2 chassis, a real pain. I got them out (finally) using a dremel to cut a sleeve in it. Where did you buy the tamiya accessories ??

Cheers,

Mark

[g4t2]

I get mine from Japan email me if you want the website, they are very relliable and fast...cheap too. Pain about the screws, I take it they're not titanium?

[marcoski]

The best partner to your Ti screws is a nice set a hudy drivers to turn them. They are a worthwhile investment and will last you a life time :)

[sparcman]

Hi,

You can buy a limited numebr of the brand new TRF414M2 lighweight front and rear bulkheads from japan....yes japan....the shipping cost by japanese postal service (called ems) and then through parcelforce was only about £15 and arrived in 3-4 days! Plus this companies level of service si amzing by e-mail at :-

<no>

Their e-mail address is :- <no>

you could also try these guys in the states

<no>

E-mail Steve Wang, he is in the main man in the company.

I am looking at possibly selling my totally hopped up TRF414M2 fitted now with titanium turnbuckles, titanium CVD's and titanium ball studs and hinge pins plus the new blue anodised lighweight TRF414M2 front and rear bulkheads and blue motor plate Any offers?

I may be able to bundle an LRP IPC Pro Sport Forward only speed control (No motor wind limit version) with the car but no other RC parts or batteries.

<have a look at the rules, no web addresses of on line shops please - use PM. There must be a source of these components in the UK>

[g4t2]

Yes I am very interested in your M2, I would only be after the rolling chassis no esc. How much would you be looking for?

[g4t2]

Marcus, very true about the Hudy wrenches...top quality tools. What about a lovely Tamiya TRF tool set eh?

[marcoski]

Never had the opportunity to play with them, I got my Hudys when I bought my TC3, as it came with alloy screws. Liked them so much, I got the metric set when I moved on to an X ray.

[g4t2]

Yeah neither have I, I'm hoping to get the set soon as the tools look gorgeous and are no doubt up to TRF's excellent craftsmanship...well at least I hope so for the price!!! ;D

[Mark_dsv]

Hi Marcus,

Or shall I say Marcoski ? My ex used to call me Mareczki (Mark in Polish) Ok, back to the subject.

Indeed I bought the Integy Hex driver, absolutely briliant, never want to use an allan key again.

Quick comment on the website policies, w.r.t mentioning the address of websites, I fully understand that you don't want to make this a bulletin board an advertising agency, however I think it could be beneficial for the interest in racechat if we could share websites without emailing people personnally to ask for it. It's just very difficult to get accessories or just spares for the TRF414 (not available in the UK at all, basically companies have to order items as well and for one reason or another it takes always weeks if not months to get it, it takes me just under a week to get it). I would say (I don't do it because it's against the rules) if discrete why can't we mention websites. I probably know your reply already, however I wanted to let you to know my opinion anyway.

Cheers,

Mark

[marcoski]

Marcoski was a username a freind and I came up with for using Farnells site about 10 years ago, and for the net, it kind of stuck!

Web addys are a difficult topic, especially foreign online shops. You would have to ask Rob for special dispensation, but I think we both know the answer to that! Its a pain, I know, but I feel you will have to stick with PM / email.

[Mark_dsv]

Hi Marcus,

Indeed, it's probably very difficult to control if people are allowed to mention websites.

Cheers,

Mark

[g4t2]

True tis a pain but it would be impossible to draw the line I guess ;D

[tomlau]

Heres what i got:
Tamiya 414 WCR
SSG chassis, upper deck, F/R shock towers
L/W bulkheads
Square foam bumper
Trinity 3300 GP cells, motor, carpet stratus

...and im almost unbeatable with it!

Should be gettin the EV0 3 surikarn ed soon. Anyone notice the 414 isnt being used by the tamiya team?

[g4t2]

"Almost unbeatable"...I'll catch you one day ;D...

When are you getting the Evo? I should be getting my l/w bulkheads soon!

[g4t2]

As for the 414 not being used by the TRF team, the TRF are payed to use the EVO III in order to promote it...doesn't mean it's a better chassis though...

[tomlau]

I'll get the evo in time for the snowbirds in feb and to do some testing but no definate time yet.

I dont think the tamiya team are payed to use the evo as u say. they probably get something to be in the team but that would be all. Pros wouldnt use a different car if it meant their performance would be compromised. the evo must be better!

Besides, look at all the guys in europe (who i dont think are official TRF), they all use the evo and are dominating alot of races.

You think you can catch me? I dont think so!
How bout a grudge match ;D

[g4t2]

About comprimising performance- I'm sure that it's very good if setup correctly....like any car, but I think most people use it as it's the "new" car.

I'm going to race my tamiya at snetterton at the club meet on the 6th, should be intereting :D

I'll catch you soon enough, don't you worry about it...LOL ;D

[tomlau]

Sorry i cant agree with that. A cars performance can only really be determined by its design, not how well its setup. Fair enough, a good setup will help the car permorm better but if the design isnt any good then it cant perfrom to its best.
You should also consider the main difference of the two cars is their drivetrains - and that cant possibly be changed by setup. Shaft driven cars undoubtedly have far greater effeciency over (2) belts designs, and if both the cars have the same suspension geometry, it dont take much to work out which has the advantage.

Good luck at snett- You'll need it. HA HA

[Taffster]

All,

I seem to remember years ago Tamiya being slated in the buggy world for being too set in their ways and persisting with power-robbing shaft drive while Schumacher, Kyosho et al were all running belts. Now Tamiya produce a world championship winning belt driven car the world and it's dog claim that shaft drive is better, more efficient etc. Has anyone got the definitive word on the better drivetrain in terms of efficiency, easy of maintenance and cost effectiveness?

Rik

[marcoski]

It has to be a shaft drive, easy to maintain (most are totally sealed), very efficient, and therefore cheap as nothing need be replaced.

However, because the drive is very direct, it is easier to break drive shafts (both centre and outdrive) if the transmision is subjected to large shocks. Belt transmission has some give.

No, this answer is not definitive ;D

[tomlau]

Heres what i understand about this...
Shaft driven cars are generally more efficient especially when run at slower speeds, which makes them excellent for stock racing. 2 belt cars feel tighter when moved by hand but when travelling at higher speeds the transmission becomes more efficient, so they tend to be better for mod than stock.

Most shaft driven cars will always be easier to maintain as the f/r gearboxes tend to be sealed (with the exception of the Alex racing baracuda).

Neither are that cost effective. Belt cars need belts replacing (not so often if you do the maintenece), and shaft cars need gears replacing.

Marcus, whta you say about drive shafts breaking is true, but only really applies to off road. Touring cars arent under half as much stress.

[tomlau]

Anyone heard of a new off road car by tamiya at all?

Supposedly when the 414 (404 then) project originally started it was split in two - on road and off road. The off road car was abandoned to concerntrate more on the on road car. I heard that tamiya will be continuing with the off road car later this year. A prototype for the worlds perhaps?

[g4t2]

Tom, true a car's performance is limited by it's design, but I think that given to the right drivers, there is little in performance between the top flight of chassis'. As for the transmissions, a shaft may be more efficient, but it is a long debated question: 'belt or shaft?' which to my knowledge has never been solved.

We shall have to see when you get your surikarn which is better...

[tomlau]

I think generally all manufactures now (with the exception of a few) all are going for a shaft design. Just look who have done this recently: Yokomo, HPI, Tamiya. Probably the biggest names in RC. As well as Associated, Alex, Academy and TTech (Can't think of any more, can you?).
It really statred with the TC3 though who got a really efficient design (Tamiya were first, but the TTech was the first real competition design which wasn't very durable). The release of the TC3 came just in time for the mainstream use of Nimh cells which all had very low av. discharge voltages. A transmission such as the TC3 was needed to get the the maximum punch from these cells, so it definatly had an advantage. So it makes sense for other manufactures to release shaft designs for this reason (although the latest batch of GPs have better numbers, better than NiCd?) and also because stock/spec racing is more popular than ever.
I can't think of any thing more to say. Bye!

Edit: Do you know if HS has any of that servo tape yet? or any carpet stratus in? might go there tomorrow

[g4t2]

Hi Tom, the servo tape I'm not sure about...possibly we may have some in. We don't have a carpet stratus though, I'm sure about that. I'll probably be in there tomorrow, so I may see you there.

Cya :)

[Dave I]

I've just purchased a 414M. What spares would you recommend getting. I've got quite a lot of TA04 spares (have been racing one from 2 1/2 years) what parts go between the two?

Many thanks

[tomlau]

Hi dave,
Me and my brother have been running 414wcr's for about a year now and have found them to be VERY durable. In the whole year only one wishbone(hardened type) broke. Apart from general suspension components (wishbones, hub carriers, c-hubs, hinge pins) you should probably stock up on front belts (the rear is very tough, but you probably only need one just in case), diff balls and driverings, shock towers (get the SSG ones, unless you need the old locations), and screws (we found that when running a high roll center the screws holding the susp. blocks could bend in a crash even though they were ti).

All the suspension stuff except hinge pins is from the TA04, as are the diff parts and screws. Depending on how good you are you probably dont need all of this cos the tamiya stuff really is bulletproof. Another good idea to get lots of spares quick is to buy a new 414M2 kit cheap cheap from japan or elsewhere. I've seen them for around £180 from Rainbowten as far as i remember. This is what we did but we still havent used a thing!

[g4t2]

Dave, it's absolutely true what Tom says, I own one too and much like the other Tamiya cars be it a TL-01 or a TA04 they are extremely tough. The only flaws are the bending screws and the easy tweak...but hey, nothings perfect!

[Tamiya_Racer]

G4T2 the evo 3 is :) ;) :D ;D 8)

[tomlau]

No G, the 414 is perfect, just the driver isn't!
The Tweak problem can be fixed by countersinking the upper deck, and the screw problem by better driving.
See you on sunday?

[g4t2]

Your contradicting yourself there Tom, you say it's perfect yet it needs modification ??? But yeah, driving is clearly another issue...lol.

you do mean next sunday right?

[tomlau]

sorry i wasnt clear. The tweak problem wouldnt be an issue if you were a good driver so the mod wouldn't be needed

edit: yes next sunday the 10th

[g4t2]

this is the latest pic of TRF414M WCR, what do you guys think?

http://www.rcpics.net/view_single.php?medid=15972

[cobra81li200]

Hehe, nice ride G...

I've just read part of this post, and what I have to say is that TRF drivers had not the choice of their ride, and the german drivers are TRF drivers, otherwise they could not have the real surikarn (don't forget they have it since march although it was released in june).

Look at their cars, they have nothing in common with the commercial version. If you want something approaching, then get the square parts.

Anyway I agree the 414 is the best tamiya car out there... for the moment.

And there are ways to get your drivetrain really free on a 414. Of course you'll always need to bend the belts (which is the main energy costing process in this type of drive train), but there is also friction in gears of a shaft driven cars.

And moreover : the difference in friction is sooooooooo insignificant compared to the loss you can have between two different types of brushes, that it doesn't mean anything. Plus nowadays runtime is no longer an issue. Most of the new cars are shaft driven just because it's what the market wants, and the market wants shaft because most people thinks it's more efficient.

[tomlau]

wheres mine G?

[g4t2]

In your house?...hehehe ;)

[tomlau]

everyone please take a look at mine too

http://www.rcpics.net/img/16183

[Tamiya_Racer]

G you now have the third most sexiest car. i just love thoses 414s so damn sexy.

in case your wondering, my car is still the sexiest :D

Tarnjit

[g4t2]

The third???? Mines much better than Tom's...hehe

[Tamiya_Racer]

MUAHAHAHAH :P

:-* my (_(_)

[steven252]

how do you keep those cells in the cars with out them falling out? as there are no battery holders ???

steven

[g4t2]

Ahhh, we use fiber reinforced tape, its the best method in my opinion and it holds them very securely and saves weight.

[cobra81li200]

Actually MY carS are the sexiest ever... and as they are, you'll never have any picture of them...

MUHUHUHUHUHUHUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA

Anyway, G, I raced today, and with proper rims/inserts and a basic setup, the car was flying... Too bad I was in a poor heat, with cars going from one side to another or appearing in front of my car in the straight... I still managed to do 26 laps which will put me in a better heat next week... with my SD hahahahhaahahahhaa...

i've got a trf414m aswell and is what i race now. i use 2 run an 04-pro but was 2 heavy 4 racing stock on my small local track. The car is gr8 ;D

[stulec52]

I am selling my 414 M 2 SSG + all the light weight blue bits.
Want pics?
e-mail me @ stu@tamiyaclub.com
thanks