Championship success ballast's ?

[fastfilli]

This is my proposal for success ballast's as run by the real British touring car championship.

This is only a proposal and may not be wanted by other club members

I have talked to Mike Smith who helped simplify success ballast rule's and also thinks this could work for our small club !

In qualifying of championship week 1 there is NO added weights to cars!

After qualifying the top five qualifying cars are weighed and success ballasts are added so each car meets their respective minimum weights.

First place (FTQ) minimum weight 1600g
Second place minimum weight 1575g
Third place minimum weight 1550g
Forth place minimum weight 1525g
Fifth place minimum weight 1500g

Only the top five finishing cars need to be weighed !

Championship week 2
The top five championship leaders will have to qualify with their respective minimum weight according to their championship position !

First place minimum weight 1600g
Second place minimum weight 1575g
Third place minimum weight 1550g
Forth place minimum weight 1525g
Fifth place minimum weight 1500g

After qualifying the success ballasts will be adjusted to qualifying positions again !

This way only the top five cars ever need to be weighed not affecting lower championship drivers !

If this is approved mike smith is willing to bring stick on weights and the STCC scales to weigh cars

[paul.upton]

Sounds easy enough and could prove to be a good leveller!!

have you thought where you can stick 100g of weight in the cyclone john? ive already got 50g in mine to bring me up to 1500g

Paul

[fastfilli]

Your assuming that I qualify first ?

But no I haven't thought about that yet

somewhere easy to get to like the for corners ?

[paul.upton]

lol yes i am "assuming" you qualify first! :p

i have 50g on at the mo i have one block on each corner, one block under each diff and 2 small blocks under the belt by where the speedo sits!!


Paul

[oliverro]

Good luck with the penalty system. If you want to have maximum effect surely it should be stuck on the roof! In BTCC the team doesn't get to decide where the ballast goes.
I'm on holiday for the next 2 weeks so I've decided to have a break from racing as I've little chance of winning the 4th place competition! Might pop down a couple of times, otherwise will start back up in the new year.
Rob

[Colin Williams]

Good luck with the penalty system. If you want to have maximum effect surely it should be stuck on the roof! In BTCC the team doesn't get to decide where the ballast goes.
I'm on holiday for the next 2 weeks so I've decided to have a break from racing as I've little chance of winning the 4th place competition! Might pop down a couple of times, otherwise will start back up in the new year.
Rob

Have a nice holiday Rob - I will miss your help on Friday nights - sorry I didn't see you before you left last Friday.

Colin

[fastfilli]

Well we run the new success ballast rules and boy did they work.
It may not seem that way if you look at the results but I will tell you how the nights racing went from my eyes.

Well to start the night everybody weight there cars to see if they were within the BRCA minimum weight 1500g. My car weighed in at 1480g on Mike Smith's scales so I put 10g under each diff on the car.Dan Wooster's car weighed 1572g with no weights:eek: no wonder he has been struggling to keep up:p.
Well come qualifying and every thing was as normal really me on pole Dan second and Stewart was on one of his good nights
(Stew is all or nothing at the front of the A or in the B)
Nathan forth and Dave got the better of Colin to come in fifth.

A final leg one

Every body had put there weights on and we were off!!!
So I berried the throttle and unleashed the umm NO power:eek:
Dan was right on my tale with Stew breathing down Dan's neck. This went on for around three minutes all holding there same positions when we came round to Lap Nathan who was bouncing of every thing in sight and then took me for a trip in to the barriers with him:'( .
I made chase but to no avail the battery's were feeling the true force of the 1600g car and had no punch left. Stew was flying and had slipped past Dan they had a unbelievably close race with a almost photo finish with Stew wining the A final UNHEARD:confused:

A final leg two

Not so exciting every body held there positions until three minutes had passed my car was slowing Dan was eating me on the strait slowly reeling me in until we were bumper to bumper. I can trust Dan not to take me out we have raced together for 20 years so he was going to have to find a way passed or a mistake from me.It was a stand off who was going to make a mistake first ? I was starting to feel the pressure and my thumb's were getting the wobbles I was struggling to take smooth corners, my thumb's seemed to be steering in big chunks making the car do square corners. I was shore Dan was going to get past but it must have got to him too because he clipped a corner and it was game over I win:D

Next week is going to be good as its unlikely I can TQ with 1600g aboard the car
so its going to be a good season.
Both me and Dan have to miss a full 3 weeks racing in this championship so its going to be wide open for anybody to win!!!! So get your ass down Oliver there will be no better chance to win.

1600g Hot bodies cyclone

[oliverro]

John
Looks like next week will be interesting. How will Dan cope with 3g of ballast! Just goes to show how fast and consistent a driver he is to minimise the effect of the heavier Lab week in week out. It has been an interesting experiment even just seeing the weights of the cars.

Colin
I'll be back, probably sooner rather than later, just need a little break - I'll have to do a couple of weeks now just to experience the ballast system goes (if I ever make the A :'( again!). Only question is, that if I do well how do I get my car down to 1600g's! :D

Cheers
Rob

[Colin Williams]

OK - I need to clarify something about the new rules we have created around success ballast, as I can see an issue raising itself in the coming weeks.

Right, the new ruling is that each week, the Drivers who are in the Top 5 Championship Positions must run their cars to the following weights for qualifying, so;
P1 - 1600g
P2 - 1575g
P3 - 1550g
P4 - 1525g
P5 - 1500g

Now, here is the question, who at the moment is actually sitting in 5th place in the championship?

If you measure purely on points, then it's me. If you use the "ability" rating, then it's Dave. So, assuming we both race this Friday, which one MUST run at 1500g (OK - I realise this is not an issue as I am running at 1500g anyway - but it's the principle I want to establish).

Personally, I think P5 should be Dave (but I would say that ;)), but if you think about it, a good driver only needs to miss one week and they will be artificially lower in the table until at least 6 weeks of the 8 have been run, and if you do it on points, they would always run low weight. This potentially will happen when John and Dan are away for a couple of weeks during the series.

Thoughts?

[fastfilli]

Humm yep I thought this might arise soon:o

Well it should be on championship points really ! thats how they do it in the BTCC, but then they don't miss races ? So yes Colin if you are higher in the championship than Dave you should be running the ballast:D

I was thinking of some sort of early count back each week but thats going to get confusing as we all have the odd week off.

Or maybe you should have to qualify in championship order ? so if i have a week off which puts me in 7th place in the championship, i should qualify the next week in 2nd in the B qualifying race:confused:

Back to the real BTCC:rolleyes: if you miss a race you have to qualify with maximum ballast 1600g (That will suck Dave:D)

Do you think this system is working and do you like it?
Or is it taking the fun away for you guys ?
I like it :) I'm still on top at the moment but its getting much harder

[paul.upton]

why not do it on the % you have 100% 1600g, 99% 1575g etc.

As yeven if you miss a week your percentage will be the same.

i am coming to race friday night, i have done no rounds, would i qualify at my car weight?

Paul

[Colin Williams]

:eek: John, stop trying to make it even more complicated with countback :eek:

Yes, I appreciate in the BTCC it is based on points, but as you say the expectation (for the top runners at least) is they will do all the rounds - and they don't do best 5 from 8 (I don't think so anyway)

I think the answer is to use the ability figure, as this is pretty much an average of your results anyway. So that means for this Friday, qualifying will be as follows;

P1 - 100% - John - 1600g
P2 - 97% - Dan - 1575g
P3 - 95% - Stuart - 1550g
P4 - 94% - Nathan - 1525g
P5 - 91% - Dave - 1500g
P6 onwards, any weight you can get the car to!

Once qualifying is run, the success weights for the Finals will be set based on the top 5 drivers from qualifying. That way, if Paul comes along, and qualifies P1 for finals, then he must run at 1600g, and so on.

Paul - yes, if you come on Friday you can qualify at whatever weight you can get your car to - although it would be "sporting" if you ran at at least 1500g :p I would suggest however that we class you as F4 for the purposes of the championship, unless you tell me you are planning to run at least 5 of the next 6 meetings? That way, we can avoid your results from skewing the top 5 results ;)

Colin

[paul.upton]

yep no problem with being F4 as long as i dont end up in the bottom heat lol

i could get my car down to 1440g but that would mean putting all my weight back on after the night, so will leave it at 1510g

Paul

[Colin Williams]

yep no problem with being F4 as long as i dont end up in the bottom heat lol

No, F4 won't affect your starting position, it will just depend on who turns up as to where you are placed.

Colin

[fastfilli]

LOL I don't want it any more complicated either :p

I bet you liked the BTCC rule's to slap Dave with 1600g for missing a race though:D

I think your way sounds best!!!

Dan Wooster is not coming on Friday.

[Colin Williams]

Hmm, should make the qualifying interesting with Dan missing then, we'll have to see who actually runs this week!

[Dave I]

i had assumed that I needed to run at 1500g anyway as my 'last' qualifying position (2 weeks ago) was 5th place. I would asssume / hope that everyone in F1 would be running their cars at 1500g minimum now, and that they weigh from the previous week, even if it were 2 weeks ago, would remain in place for qualifying.

[Colin Williams]

I would asssume / hope that everyone in F1 would be running their cars at 1500g minimum now

Well we can all assume, but that's not the rules we've been running to ;)


i had assumed that I needed to run at 1500g anyway as my 'last' qualifying position (2 weeks ago) was 5th place.

Well, that's why I raised this, because the success ballast rules are related to "Championship Position", which may change if you miss a week or two, not necessarily how you finished your last run.

Colin

[Colin Williams]

I bet you liked the BTCC rule's to slap Dave with 1600g for missing a race though:D

Oooh, maximum ballast for missing a week - now there's a thought - wow :eek:

[paul.upton]

Just out of interest, have you got plenty of weight for friday night, or would it be worth bringing my own (if i have some)

Also what time do the doors open on friday!

Thanks
Paul

[Dave I]

Oooh, maximum ballast for missing a week - now there's a thought - wow :eek:

There's no need for that !!!

I suppose the 'ability' is the best method for the weight penalty.

[Colin Williams]

There's no need for that !!!

I suppose the 'ability' is the best method for the weight penalty.

The more I think about it the "righter" it is - after all, we sort the qualifying based on ability, not points.

[Colin Williams]

Just out of interest, have you got plenty of weight for friday night, or would it be worth bringing my own (if i have some)

Also what time do the doors open on friday!

Thanks
Paul

Past couple of weeks, Mike has been bringing a box of weights with him - but if you've got it, bring your own.

Doors open at 6.45pm (if I get there by then!) and we try to get racing underway by 7.30 - so help with the track is always welcome :rolleyes:

[Dave I]

Getting cells done now, Mike has my motor doing the biz ! Hopefully the car will be on pace tomorrow night.

The weight based on ability is the best method I think. I would still hope that the F1 drivers would run 1500g minimum.

[MikeS]

Scales will be there so there is no excuse.
In reality I think all the F1's are now running to 1500 minimum, the last 2 weeks has brought about.
Yes Dave it will be there for you

[paul.upton]

Cheers guys looks like it could be quite a close night, have got my 13.5t in for practise so we should be able to see the difference in speed, should be fun

See you tommorow

[Colin Williams]

Scales will be there so there is no excuse.
In reality I think all the F1's are now running to 1500 minimum, the last 2 weeks has brought about.
Yes Dave it will be there for you

Will we see you out on track tonight Mike?

[paul.upton]

well i think last night showed that the ballast certainly does work,

was nothing between me and John, came down to who mad the most mistakes which was me of course!

Will deffinatly be back soon!

Paul

[fastfilli]

WOW did you see the lap times in A final leg 2:eek: how close ?
Good to have you come it was nice to race against someone different :)
You will have to let me know where your home turf is so I can come and race you!!!
Don't expect to much though as when I'm not at home ground I get very out my comfort zone:(

[paul.upton]

really enjoyed it, think i may come over more often.

i race at silverstone most of the time but TBH they dont get the numbers to warrent going every week!

Paul