parts

[Mark Stiles]

Are there any specific parts I should buy for my SD to get it up to spec? I've asked about a front one way, and I'm going to try the diff first (before risking wasting money on something I'll hardly ever use!). What's this about putting a rear shock tower on the front? Is this essential, and what do I gain from doing it?

[al]

the car is great out of the box im told even though i went out and bought upgrades ! lolol

a rear shock tower on the front is a good idea, as for the one-way it will come in handy for some tracks but no great rush

it will be a great car !!! 8)


al ;D

[Chris Kerswell]

The idea of the rear shock tower on the front, as I understand it, is so that the front and back shocks are symetrical. This (in my opinion) makes for a 'nicer' easier to set up car.

[al]

like my shocks have green on the front and yellow on the rear but ive got the front shock tower on at the moment so the front is still softer, even thogh ther is 2 grades harder on the front.

or is it my car ?

lol

al :D

[Chris Kerswell]

Yes, That is probably the reason.

This is because of the different shock angles (the kit front shock tower has the shocks more angles over and therefore will cause the wheel rate to be lower (ie the suspention softer!))

[al]

so putting a r shock tomer on will cure it, phewww
it was anoying me big style i will do that tomorow

cheers chris

al 8)

[Chris Kerswell]

Im not saying WILL cure it but it sounds like it will (from what you have described). If it does not then you have somthing built wrongly or bend somewhere!

[al]

nothings bent and all the wish bones n hubs ect.. are all free. im not that lame lol

al

[sosidge]

Putting the rear shock tower on the front doesn't make the shock angles the same - because the front shock is mounted further in on the wishbone than at the rear.

What it does do is give a more direct feeling to the steering.

Personally, I run Atheena Projects towers which are a better all round solution if you want to run a more vertical shock. Rayspeed towers should also work well.

The front suspension feeling softer than the front, even with a slightly stiffer spring, is normal. Again, it's because the shock is mounted further in on the wishbone, which makes the wheel rate softer for any given shock setting.

[al]

in - meaning ?

al ;D

[Chris Kerswell]

because the front shock is mounted further in on the wishbone than at the rear.


This surely depends on which of the 4 holes you choose?!
ie if you choose the same holes front and rear then the shock will be mounted at the same angle.

But however, I do agree with you that mounting the shocks further in in the lower wishbone does decrease the wheel rate.

[al]

ahhhhh now i under stand ;D

[johnbull]

Hi friends. Greetings from Malta.

I use Rayspeed towers front and rear, same shock oil and same springs.

I adjust the handling by moving holes, either on the towers or on the wishbones. There are plenty of possibilities and it's the easiest way. This way you have no worry about putting shocks in any particular corner for they are all the same. Also same tyres and inserts all round.

With the cells moved forward I am much closer to the 50 / 50 optimum weight distribution too. I run mainly a locked front diff and 5 degree caster blocks, and the car handles well.

Fairly soft springs with 50 shock oil slows weight transfer which helps it both in and out of corners.

Regards

Joe from sunny Malta.

[Mark Stiles]

What about springs, are the kit ones okay? I'll be running super stock at west london.

[Chris Kerswell]

I run mainly a locked front diff and 5 degree caster blocks, and the car handles well.


Do you have the part number for alternative castor blocks then because I cant find any non-kit ones anywhere!

Mark - In the damp at Aldershot last week I ran Yellows (the softest I could get hold of) to try to get the car to generate some grip. This may not be the best solution though because it was the first time I had run the car on a very low-grip track. Come have a chat Sunday if you need any setup help.

[mr4man]

hi sd people.
did you know the kit silver springs are actully yellows with no coating on em.

[Mark Stiles]

I won't be racing until the first round of the summer series, as I still need cells, a motor and some tyres. I live in thame, so its a fair old trek over to west london, and I'm also racing 1/12th scale on sunday, so I couldn't make it anyway.

I've been on the cml website and saw that both you and adam rogers used green front springs, and pink rears. Chris grainger has associated blues all round. How would these compare? (I'm new to touring cars, so I'm not sure about the order of the spring colours yet!)

[cobra81li200]

hi sd people.
did you know the kit silver springs are actully yellows with no coating on em.


I know that is wrong. My info comes from Masami's Father (one of my friend is japanese) and the material is different than the usual spring's material.

Thus they are completely different.

[johnbull]

Chris.

The C hubs are Fastrax for the old type MR4. CML have them in various degrees. If you locate the top link on the top king pin mounting you'll be all right. I just used a rose joint and a 3mm screw.

Regards

Joe.

[Chris Kerswell]

Hmm, might have to try that with the castor blocks, thanks John.

The springs are not the same.

I used harder front than back at bisley, yes. However at AMCC last week I used yellow all round.

I have not tried Associated Blues as Chris seems to run everywhere! I will at some point I guess though!

If you buy a pair of springs then you get a sheet telling you the order (I cant remember them off the top of my head yet)

[Stu_Dale]

Just thout id throw a spaner in the works with all the rear shock tower stuff.
What sosidge said is true about the handeling changes, and what Chris wos saying is corect in theory,
but, you have to remember that the wishbones at the front are mounted furthe in on the chassis,
so even if u use the same holes on the tower and the wishbones on the front and back of the car, the front shocks will be more upright than the rear.
Stu.

[Chris Kerswell]

me goes to measure :o)

[Stu_Dale]

Its only a few mm but its there, It is also the reason why the front axles (bit thet joins the wheel to the dogbone) are difernt a length to the back ones.
Stu.

[Chris Kerswell]

Back,

That man is right too!

Yes, the front end is mounted further in by 2.3mm (I recon - if my scaling from the CAD drawing is correct).

This means that the wishbone holes are about 1/2 a hole further in on the front end.

...and yes, this would explain why the front stub axles are longer than the rear. [EDIT : no it wouldnt, the overall wheelbase and the position of the bearings in the hub determine this because the diff is in the same place but the hubs are not mounetd the same distance from the end of the wishbone (if that makes any sence at all?!)] Although is is worth noting that the rear track (width) is about 1mm narrower than the front which if I remember correctly will also affect the wheel rate in some way (but I cant remember which way off the top of my head!

[Stu_Dale]

Yes i agree with what you have said there, but the thing to remember is, if you put the rear tower on tha front, it does not mean that the shack angles are the same.
Maybe there is room in the market for some one to make a new front shock tower that takes this in to acount so the front and back are the same. ;).
Stu.

[Chris Kerswell]

Yes, you are correct, my statement earlier int he thread saying that does, upon closer inspection, appear to be wrong :'(

A rear shock tower on the front however will still be closer to symetry that the kit front shock tower :)

Chris

[Stu_Dale]

That is true as the front will only be 1/2 a hole out.
Stu.

[cobra81li200]

Yes i agree with what you have said there, but the thing to remember is, if you put the rear tower on tha front, it does not mean that the shack angles are the same.
Maybe there is room in the market for some one to make a new front shock tower that takes this in to acount so the front and back are the same. ;).
Stu.


It is not possible to have exactly the same stiffness with same springs unless you use the same linkage on the front and rear arms.

[Stu_Dale]

Ok, thats true.
Its not as simple as it sounds, is it? ;).

[cobra81li200]

Indeed, and moreover, it's not really relevant unless the mass balance is exactly 50/50.