How to bend the rules and get away with it

[Nigel Meakin]

There is a loop hole in the rules for 10th Touring cars (not to sure about others)
At Halifax National meeting a competitor did not qualify has high has he thought he should have done he qualified in the D final.

He waited until the finals had been printed and posted then decided he was not going to run in them and decided to go home.

He knew exactly what he was doing because if he had said after qualifying that he was not doing the finals he would have had is qualifying score plus 10th place points on both finals this would have affected his % position for the next national meeting thus putting him into a lower qualifying heat.

Because he went home and did not marshal he was disqualified from the meeting and received 0000 points as if he never entered the meeting. and his % points remained the same.

There are other issues

Because he did not tell the Race director until after the finals had started that meant the person who qualified 1st in the E final in theory should have been 10th in the D final and would have been in a position to score more points working out his final times he would have finished at least 4th maybe higher.

Having discussed this with the BRCA Committee member he has informed me that there is no penalty for this action but to disqualify them from the meeting (but of course they new this and this is exactly what they wanted).

These individuals who abuse the system should be punished we can not rerun the finals so the lad who was in the wrong final will never get those points.

I believe a proposal should be put forward at the next AGM to alter the rules but in the mean time the person who cheated and got away with it should have his best time of the series deducted.

If the person had of broke his car in some way and had not been able to compete in the finals I would have understood but that was not the case.

Your views please

[rcmadd]

how sad some ppl are cos he was not where he wanted to be he went crying home
there is a lad like that in our club if he not in a heat where he wins he crys and refuses to race

[Jim Spencer]

Hi

Firstly I would have thought this better discussed in the touring car section? but if you're looking for my thoughts they would be:-

Quite agree its not on to just up sticks and not tell anybody..

But it would also be wrong to move people up a place just because somebody doesn't want to run in the final.

For Example

If I was running my 1/8th car and lets say I qualified for the C final in 10th..

And it chucked it down..

I would be quite within the rules, and the spirit of the rules, not to run and take the points for 30th - Yes?
That's my choice I can use my qualifying position as I see fit?
(Having qualified at the back for the odd A Final and then pulled off to watch the race at the sharp end, once or twice..)

The problem with your bloke isn't that he didn't run - the problem is that he didn't Marshall. Which is what the official concerned picked up and disqualified him for, sounds like the system worked fine to me.

The only thing from my point of view is the penalty for not Marshaling the final - being disqualification - appropriate, I would think so.
But realistically that's a sectional thing so that should be discussed in that forum.

[Nigel Meakin]

Hi

The problem with your bloke isn't that he didn't run - the problem is that he didn't Marshall. Which is what the official concerned picked up and disqualified him for, sounds like the system worked fine to me.

The only thing from my point of view is the penalty for not Marshaling the final - being disqualification - appropriate, I would think so.
But realistically that's a sectional thing so that should be discussed in that forum.

jim

Thanks for your input

Quick senarrio

One of the top guns in the country had qualified 11th and this guy was in the A and decided to do one after the finals had been produced but not run i think there would be a different outcome.

But my point is how can it be a punishment when he disqualified from a meeting he is not at any longer.

Bit like putting a prisoner in prison when he is already there.:confused:

nige

[Mark Christopher]

200mm ic have a ruling

if the driver does not race his final and does not marshal (ie, he has gone home without telling anyone) he looses his best score of the series for that year as his penalty. so if at round one he had a ftd and win and was in the b for the rest of the year, he looses his points for the ftd and win

(works well so maybe you could propose it to the elec section agm!)

i dont agree the next man in the qualifying list should move up, if he was pole in the b he should be entitled to no more points than he can get for winning the b.
the final the racer does not play in, runs with less numbers

[CatXLS]

Probably in a small minority here but I think if someones had enough and wants to go home for any reason then thats ok. If someones not having fun for whatever reason then its probably best if they call it a day, not sticking around getting more and more pissed off for the sake of some sort of punichment. And IMO they should still get the points for where they qualified. Ie if someone leaves after round 2 and they still end up 35th, they should still be put in the D final and classified 10th. That would stop people leaving for tactical reasons.

[Mark Christopher]

Probably in a small minority here but I think if someones had enough and wants to go home for any reason then thats ok. If someones not having fun for whatever reason then its probably best if they call it a day, not sticking around getting more and more pissed off for the sake of some sort of punichment. And IMO they should still get the points for where they qualified. Ie if someone leaves after round 2 and they still end up 35th, they should still be put in the D final and classified 10th. That would stop people leaving for tactical reasons.

so who is going the marshal n place of the drivers who "had a bad day"

[Chris Kerswell]

Unfortunately the problem that everyone has missed is actually the grading system. What you have to ask yourself is WHY did they do it? The answer is so as not to affect their grading and therefore performance in future meetings. This is not the first time this situation has occurred and unless the rules are changed it won't be the last!

Another point to note is that even if they DID say to race control they were going home after qualifying then they should have been LEFT IN, this is what has always happened in the past, where in the rules does it say anyone not wishing to compete in the finals will be removed before finals are sorted?

I understand your point but the driver in question broke the rules and was punished in accordance with the rule book. Rather than moan on a forum, fill in the AGM proposal form to amend the rules involved and submit it to be voted on in October!

[Nigel Meakin]

Rather than moan on a forum, fill in the AGM proposal form to amend the rules involved and submit it to be voted on in October!:mad:


Chris feedback from other memers is good so that you propose the the correct amendmants to the rules.

Maybe politics is not you forta

It may have been better worded this way

There is a proposal form on the brca web site should you have a proposal thats where the correct forms can be found.:)

[Jim Spencer]

I believe a proposal should be put forward at the next AGM to alter the rules but in the mean time the person who cheated and got away with it should have his best time of the series deducted.



Just a quick note as changed the thread title.

The person we're discussing didn't cheat.
He failed to marshal and got the appropriate penalty.

If the rules had of been different that might not have been the case, but they're not - so he didn't.

When 1 of you decides to make a proposal then things may of course change for the future.. :)

[Steve Cann]

or Rather lack of it :( :( ...

[CatXLS]

so who is going the marshal n place of the drivers who "had a bad day"

A volunteer who isnt having a bad day!

[Chris Kerswell]

Firstly ill point out the typo in the quote above, my original post didn't have the angry face in it :)

Nigel, Thankfully for the general population I have never considered politics as a career! Can you imagine.... LOL Seriously though, I have never seen a truly productive discussion about rules on a forum, I would have thought most people would agree with in that this use/interpretation of the rules is not what it was originally intended for, a slight tweak along the lines of Mark's idea would probably solve the issue.

Steve, unfortunatly, although I agree with your sentiment, this is competitive racing and therefore it should be expected people will do everything possible within the rules to get the advantage!

Danny, LOL :D

[Sam_Smith]

A volunteer who isnt having a bad day!

More like the poor guy who was pole from the final before, who potentially could still have cells to put on etc :'(

[Steve Cann]

this is competitive racing and therefore it should be expected people will do everything possible within the rules to get the advantage!



to the "Corinthian spirit"? :( :(

[Chris Kerswell]

It all depends on if you consider this to be a sport or a hobby?

[Steve Cann]

It all depends on if you consider this to be a sport or a hobby?



are those that achieve their results without the need of seeking/using any available 'loophole' to obtain an 'edge'... What you should be looking for is true acknowledgement, from your peers, for what you have achieved... This will not be found by 'working' outside the 'spirit' of the rules...

It doesn't matter a jot wether it's a hobby or a sport...

[tc3team]

A good sportsman/hobby purist would honour themselves to doing their marshalling, whatever their qualifying position or outcome in any race.

Whatever the encounter, in 13 or so years ive not once left a meeting until the end of the racing.

Broken car, bad mind, so what? Stop being so selfish.