MRT Personal Transponder

[Glenn Atterton]

Have one of the these PT's as well as the AMBrc red one. Will the MRT version work with the software used at the nationals ?

It worked OK on AMB20 @ TRCC and Batley indoor regional over the weekend

[Chrislong]

It'll only works on AMB20, it is not compatible with the loop which works with the red AMBrc equipment or KO equipment.

One loop is magnetic (AMB20), the other loop is from radio frequency (AMBrc), so different transponders required for each.

PM me if you need any other info.

Chris



Modified these 2 threads slightly to keep the advertising rule happy.

Jim

[Jim Spencer]

Hi All

BTW the personal transponder, mentioned by Glenn, will work with the Software used at 1/12 circuit Nationals. What it won't do is work with the Hardware used, as per Chris's post, as the 2 systems are incompatiable.

Jim

[Chrislong]

Thanks Jim for modding and keeping thread going..

I have used my PT AMB20 at many club and regional meetings since early December, every meeting it has been 100%, and when the software is capable it always says the signal is good. Its just a case of remembering to switch number on it - easy though.

I ask before I use, and when scrutineering needed, I take the issued transponder and leave in pocket - no bother.

Id recomend keeping a cell with a female receiver plug on to plug it in and power it up to change number without having to turn tranny on and upset people on track..

Chris

[Glenn Atterton]

I'd recommend keeping a cell with a female receiver plug on to plug it in and power it up to change number without having to turn tranny on and upset people on track..


I use their esc also which allows for the crystal to be removed and the esc powered up so you can adjust the esc program settings (not neutral etc) so I am able to adjust the PT without the need for a separate power source

[Chrislong]

:-[ Im meant to know things like that Glenn, oh well, I now know how to change PT number easily without breaking any rules!!

Thanks
Chris

[Andy Oldman]

It'll only works on AMB20, it is not compatible with the loop which works with the red AMBrc equipment or KO equipment.

One loop is magnetic (AMB20), the other loop is from radio frequency (AMBrc), so different transponders required for each.


Jim[/i]

just for info
AMB 20 & AMBrc use the same loop its the decoder that is different
AMB20 is an analogue system
AMBrc is digital

the ko system works on the radio frequency the car is using

andy

[Chrislong]

Aaaaaah, I see. I have no experience of AMBrc, and i only half remember what I read..

So what difference can there be between analogue and digital in a transponder? As surely the only information it has to give is communicate with the loop "Hello, im passing again".

But, that'll explain why the KO system can do strange things when there is a lot of alloy around the track such as scaffolding.

Chris

[MattW]

The KO system has changed a bit, it now has an extra "Crystal" that needs plugging into a "transponder". Fine if used as a PT, not great as handouts.

[Terry]

Both the AMB20 and AMBrc transponders operate using magnetic induction.

Chris said:

So what difference can there be between analogue and digital in a transponder? As surely the only information it has to give is communicate with the loop "Hello, im passing again".


The simple answer is:
Each AMB20 transponder has to communicate and say "Hello, im passing again".

Each AMBrc transponder has to communicate and say "Hello, my unique id is xyz, im passing again"... "Hello, my unique id is xyz, im passing again"... "Hello, my unique id is xyz, im passing again, did you hear me that time??!!!"

The AMB20 is analogue but interestingly the way the system is designed it could actually record lap times more accurately than the newer digital AMBrc system (digital is not always best!). Effectively there is separate 'detection' for each transponder with the AMB20, ie 10 transponders could pass over the loop simultaneously and all be recorded as having exactly the same lap time. With the AMBrc it's a digital system and each transponder has a unique id. Due to the way the AMBrc system operates if say 10 transponders crossed the loop simultaneously each one would first have to be identified in order to record its lap time. Transponder identification takes time, it can take up to several 1/1000sec so early detection (pick up away from the loop) is needed to allow for this potential time delay. Originally when the AMBrc system was released the accuracy was stated by AMB as 0.001 sec (1/1000sec) it has since been corrected to 0.005 sec (5/1000sec).

There is a potential problem with AMBrc personal transponders due to the fact that they are powered externally (from the receiver 'batt' socket). If an electric cars battery is 'dumping' and the ESC is power failing the PT may not have sufficient voltage to operate and the PT may not be detected as it crosses the loop. Worth knowing this fact, the simple answer is don't dump as you cross the loop!!

The KO system uses radio frequency for transponder detection. The extra crystal appears to have been added to improve detection reliability. The KO's radio frequency detection in theory also has potential problems. Radio interference as with radio control glitches etc could cause missed laps. Not having raced using the system I don't know how susceptible it is in practice.

Our club uses the now obsolete AMB20 system. In use it's very reliable even though it's an old tech analogue system.

[gbevens]

Hi,

Interesting point about the decoding times Terry, my understanding was that the system 20 applied a time stamp to recieved transponer signal during the decoding process (the stamp was initialised prior to the full decoding), i.e. as the bug passes over the loop the decoder realises a transponder has gone over and says 'at 183.4 seconds I got a signal from transpoder number........which one was it?' and then sorts out the decoding process (I could be wrong on this, I have been many times before). I always asumed the system RC used the same principles, timestamp first decode later.

Gareth

[Terry]

Basically the AMBrc does 'decoding', whereas the AMB20 effectively does 'detecting' because each AMB20 transponder is on a separate 'transponder channel'. With the AMBrc the transponders (up to 16 million unique ID numbers) are all on the same 'channel' and have to be identified first. With both systems no lap time can be 'known' until the transponder is identified regardless of anything else.

[MR GMCC]

So do the MRT personal transponders work with the older AMB20 which has the black handout transponders? If so how? Thank you.

[Steve Cann]

They [MRT] do (or did anyway) a transponder that was compatible with the old black transponders...

Suggest you check their web-site out or contact them direct to check availability...

[MR GMCC]

Cheers Steve.