really disappointed

[TKohler]

im selling my cyclone after a mere 6 months... why? because im so very disappointed with the build quality and reliability of the car...
every time i clip a curb slightly it causes something to break, i knocked one curb today at a race meeting at no great speed, and the rear drive belt snapped, and as our model shop does not stock cyclone parts, that was it, game over for the day. 2 laps racing for 5 quid!
also other small knocks have done similar damage, a slight tap from another car caused a bulkhead to split and screws snap off in hub carriers etc, but the worst bit is the vibration... screws flying out of the car on a weekly basis, i shouldnt HAVE to threadlock all the screws on the car into place...
also tyre wear is poor, and im just generally disappointed with how whatw as such a great platform in the form of the pro4 has been ruined for the club racer, as i cannot physically maintain this car with the pace of our race meetings... which is a shame as ive wasted 270quid!

[modracer]

was it a sport,hara or moorespeed?

[Elliott Harper]

What was your setup so I can see where all the tyre wear has come from as ive never had a problem with tyre wear?

[TKohler]

its a standard black cyclone...
my setup was 50wt oil in front shocks, 40 back with gold springs at the front, silvers at the back
no roll bars
1.5 degrees camber at front (as any less caused sidewall to split on my tyres) and 2 at the back
one ways
5mm droop all around
shock position 3 on both towers, outer mount on wishbone at front, middle at rear
3 degrees rear toe in, 0 at front standard settings for the rest of the car

i may be replacing the parts and persevering with it, its just 35quid to buy a new bulkhead set as i cant get the top mount on its own, and a rear belt is going to be around the ten pound mark, so 45 quid is a bit pricey...
might get an Mi2 as a spare car as they r built like tanks! :D

[Elliott Harper]

Try putting 1.5mm underneath the pivot blocks. This may help as it won't be working the tyres so hard

[TKohler]

right i will try it... also is it odd that the rear belt snapped after only 5 months of running? i did what i was instructed to do by chris condon to lower the rear diff to loosen off the belt a bit, as it was quite tight, then the rear belt kept coming off so i raised the diff again to get a bit more tension and it snapped, had it streched too much? or was it just coming to the end of its life?

[Mark Stiles]

Sorry to hear you've had some problems with the car; I know how frustrating it is to have teething problems.:(

I can't say I've ever had any serious issues with tyre wear on my car. As Elliot suggests, try 1.5mm under the pivot blocks and see what happens. Raising the roll centres like this will make the car generate less overall grip, so tyre wear should be reduced slightly.

As for breaking stuff, well all I've broken is 2 bulkheads, but these were done in the same accident, and considering the speed at which the car was going and the nature of the accident I was surprised to find that these were all that broke!

I tend to replace parts through wear rather than as a result of breakages. Make sure the screws are done up tight; mine aren't threadlocked and its rare for one to come loose.

[gramey]

:( 5 months, eeek, preventive maintenance is what it's all about with belt drives, you wouldn't buy a real car and expect the cambelt to last 100, 000 plus miles would you?:confused:

[spmcc]

Bad workman always blames his tools ;)

[modracer]

for cheap cyclone parts try brock models drive belts £6.00 failing that microtech racing great service from both no worries.:'(

[TKohler]

its just, there are some issues with the standard black cyclone i think, the driveshafts are unaccpetably weak, steel shafts should not wear at such a rate as they do, so these are due for a replacement, a bulkhead was broken (although in a crash that shattered my servo) the rear belt has snapped and ive had problems with the standard shocks which have forced me to go back to my pro4 units.

I just have never had a car that has had so many prooblems in such little time, although im less concerned when i found out a rear drive belt for a cyclone is cheaper than the t2 equivalent :D i think an overhaul is needed... new driveshafts (CVDs), spool version 3 perhaps, replacing that bulkhead and maybe a new set of bearings for the summer (as the others have been used in rain, dusty conditions, ICE!

[Stew Noble]

If you crash, things break/bend, theres no was you can blame the car for that.

I understand the black Cyclone driveshafts are fairy easy to bend indoors, but the version1 steel dogbones (direct replacement) shafts withstand much more abuse.

I like the analogy of the belt being like a cambelt, as its very true, you cant expect these things to last forever in such a high strain area.

What exactly was the problem you had with the standard shocks?

Screws comming out?...



If your replacing the spool and driveshafts the new version3 spool and MIP driveshafts are an awesome combination.

[vroomtshh]

And if your crashing, then maybe you should get a diff rather than a spool ;)

[big-chris]

give you £50 for your cyclone:)

[TKohler]

ha erm.... no! well, the problem was the shocks just collapsed, the entire insides just fell through the bottom of the shock! the crashes have only been caused by breakages, a steering link came off the car while i was driving down the main straight, so i didnt know what had happened until i went to turn at the 1st corner n the car went straight on!
other examples of incidents are where the car has stopped dead due to battery problems and motor stuff, and cars have ploughed through it... aside from the odd roll and clipping a curb iv not actually crashed the car as a result of poor driving... the spool n driveshafts have to be done i think... can pick up the lot for about 40quid, and it will be a better bet than spindly standard driveshafts and the one way! especially if the car randomly breaks, as have no means to prevent heavy impact with a one way!

[Chrissy C]

Tom,

I know you have had a hard time with the car, but when i have looked at your car I notice that you have not really focused on getting the basics right and straight away want to get in to the 'nitty gritty' of set ups.

Loosing screws/shocks - Screws that go in to alloy parts should have a slight amount of thread lock placed on the threds, it is cheap and will stop any future screws coming loose. i have never had the trouble with the shocks, but i don't think a touch of threadlock will hurt.

Bulkheads - As suggested before why not get the Cyclone S versions until you can afford the alloy ones, they will still do the job.

Set Up - Again i have mentioned previously that a double one way set up is hard to drive, especially at Colchester when grip is low. get a diff sorted and a fixed centre layshaft and your car will instantly become easier to drive and you will complete the 5 mins. You already have pro 4 parts so all you need is are diff out puts (best to get the alloy ones) and the diff gear. Belt wise i have always used mine as per the instructions and they have been perfect, you had tighted your rear belt up as it was slipping off the diff gear, it was very tight and may have weakend the belt, you have also been using a low wind mod of late which will always wear parts faster than a 27t or 19t, no matter what car.

Driveshafts - Don't forget the black Cyclone was the first model and had a couple of issues that came to the fore as more and more track time was had, thats why it was cheaper when you got it. Replace the Ver 1 steel dogbones with the Ver 2 steel ones, with a diff up front these should last well.

The HB drivers on here have offered you some good set up advice, they know what they are talking about so give it a try. my advice would be to strip the car, check for all the usual things ie bearings free, hinge pins straight, nio binding of steering parts, equal shock length/droop, set angles accurately, it all takes time, but any of todays high tech tourers need this kind of attention to perform well on the track. Do the above and give it a go, if your still not happy then when i'm next at Colchester bring the car over and we can look at the issues you have.

Stew, Mark, Elliot, if there is anything else you boys can do to help or any information above that you don't agree with please let Tom know :D

Good luck!
Chris

[Stew Noble]

Bear in mind if you want to use version 2 steel driveshafts with a 1way you'll also need the version 2 1way outputs.

You can use threadlock on the screws but honestly there shouldn't be any need.

I'm not too sure why the shocks would fail in that way, or how pro4 shocks would cure it as there essentially the exact same thing...

I think you may want to think about your maintenance routine, cars dont just 'randomly break' on there own, there IS a root cause, you cant just build a competition car and leave it it needs to be maintained and checked, by the sounds of it the broken parts come from poor maintenance rather than bad driving.
Seriously mate, you cant expect things to last forever you need to put in a certain level of work to have a fast and reliable car.

[ali303]

Wise words from The Noble:p

[nismo]

Seriously mate, you cant expect things to last forever you need to put in a certain level of work to have a fast and reliable car.

I know you used a 8x1 motor in your car. I didn't put a 9 in my 415 just randomly. I was making A finals in stock at wlrc. i was doing a hell of a lot of maintenance on my car. every screw checked, diff checked, spool and driveshafts checked, servo checked, all angles checked, all wishbones and pins checked.

Competition car = competition maintenance.

Well said Stewart.

[TKohler]

ive stripped the car down every single week for the last 2 months between meetings... i check as many screws as i can between runs at the track, but there is very little time between heats.

Ive just decided to get the car to finish races with what i have, and then change to CVD driveshafts up front and use a spool and solid centre pulley.
i never had problems using one ways before, in fact some of the other guys are going that way too, well, using the free spinning spool equivalent on xray cars.

the main problems have been with setup, but i finally got the car set up in a way which was certain to work and after 3 laps at most... the belt snapped.

im sure u can all c my frustration, but this week, im using the 8 turn (with throttle limited to about 75%) im experimenting with anti-squat to make the car smoother, and i am using some better tyres that ive dug out (RP30s just dont work in sub 10degree temperatures).

Im appreciative of all the advice i receive, but the truth is that id find it much better to learn what works and what doesnt for me, rather than be told what works, without even having the benefit of having tried alternatives...

with previous cars, one ways have always been the best for me, better than spools, better than diffs... this even includes indoors on polished floor. also the majority of the problems caused are due to the fact that as has been stated, the model i have has experienced a few teething problems, which i am in no financial situation to resolve at present...
don't suppose ur gonna be there this weekend chris? as i have a feeling the car may do better than expected following a few tips from a very useful source!

[Mark Stiles]

If i rebuilt my car after every meeting I'd feel as if I was wasting my time, and I would expect the car to be very inconsistent from week to week.

Mine gets a strip down before each national or big meeting, but for a club meeting I just leave it and check the things that usually wear out etc...

I have never snapped a belt (kiss of death there!), although I do run 19t. Mod racing (particulalry with hot winds like you mention) is always going to put more stress on the load bearing components of the car. Try a higher wind motor, or maybe even do a meeting or two in the 19t class to see how you get on? It's all very well limiting the throttle to 75%, but until this point the power delivery will be identical to before, so you'll be putting the same forces through the drivetrain when it spools up.

I've very rarely used anti squat on the car; I tend to keep everything level, like it says in the instructions. I dont see how making a setup change like this would stop you breaking parts (which seems to be the issue you're having)?:confused:

I'm a 19t one way driver; I use them whenever I can as i find I'm quicker with them usually, but there is probably 1 track in the whole of england (Snetterton) that I would even entertain running a one-way in modified, as theres no way I'd be able to slow the car down enough to get it into the corners without a spool at any of the other circuits!

[ali303]

I'm a 19t one way driver; I use them whenever I can as i find I'm quicker with them usually, but there is probably 1 track in the whole of england (Snetterton) that I would even entertain running a one-way in modified, as theres no way I'd be able to slow the car down enough to get it into the corners without a spool at any of the other circuits!

Have you ever heard of Halifax?:D

[Chrissy C]

Tom, not about this weekend, i am being dragged to a wedding (not mine! :eek: )

Should be at the club the week after depending on this lovely weather we're having!

Chris

[Mark Stiles]

Have you ever heard of Halifax?:D

Not a bad point, but you've still got the hairpin in front of the rostrum to think about. Snetterton is very flowing, and changes in speed are quite small compared to most circuits.

[TKohler]

Should be at the club the week after depending on this lovely weather we're having!

Chris

erm... we arent racing that weekend... darn motorbikes... but i may be going to ipswich, borrowing a stock motor and seeing how i do (id have thought ud have been at southend that weekend, its the week before the stcc isnt it?)

[TKohler]

the anti-squat is to sot out the fact that my car seems to jump about a bit at the back, probably becuase of the combination of a one-way and my driving style, i thought i may as well try it, if it doesnt settle the car down, il try something else