Getting Personal (Transponders)

[gbevens]

All,

Just trying to gauge the need for PT's over the next year,
Who's going to be running them?
How many people want them?
Do I need to get a stock of Y leads?

Simple questions realy, if I have this info I can then go and talk to Russ, Jim and the importer about getting a load for the first meeting

Gareth

[Dave Treacy]

Gareth,

Seeing as MK doesn't have PT facilities yet, niether Kyle or I will run them.

Dave

[KRob]

Gareth/Jim,
It was initially mentioned that it may be possible to get some PT's with a short lead for 12th cars rather than the massive wire lead that comes as standard, to save lots of messing around with them.
Any chance?

[MattW]

You can solder can't you?? :P

[KRob]

I'm only thinking of others ;)

[gbevens]

Not sure, will have to ask a couple of questions. They do look simple enough to hack out and re-solder but if we can get them with shorter tails from new it would make life easier.

[Andy Sawyer]

Me and Trish will want them if they are available at the first Nat

[jason]

Keith,

I have the necessary kit to put a new plug on the end of the exisitng wire cut to length if your solderings not up to it.

Jason

[v8 power]

gareth any idea on cost if price right i will be running one at
first national where we can have our seasons battle


cheers ken ;D ;D ;D ;D

[KRob]

Contrary to popular belief I am capable of changing a plug ::)
Please note: it is self enforced laziness, not a lack of ablilty :P

But I am interested in one, can you let us know, or I will source one from elsewhere before the first Nat.

[MattW]

In truth Keith the leads seem too long for all applications that i want to use mine in. Everytime i use it there is a lump of cable tied up. I must get round to shortening it!!

[acurry]

Gareth I will more than likley run one if the price is right let me know as soon as

[gbevens]

All,

The cost of a personal transponder will be £46, the section is doing these at cost and will also have the facility to re-plug them so shorter leads can be accommodated but we are only looking at getting 10 in time for the Macc meeting. If any one who is reading this for the first time wants one please PM either myself of Jim Spencer and we can look at getting some more if required.

If you want to reserve a PT please let us know via PM (we will also pre register them on the timing software)

Gareth
:P :P

[Eric Dunn]

My son Colin will be using Personnel Transponder

[gbevens]

Eric

Does he already have one or does he require one at Macclesfield?

Gareth

[big al]

The BRCA run the meeting and the timing system. we pay for that service. if it goes wrong its down to them.If a PT breaks its down to the racer & at extra cost to the racer with no discount from the entry is a joke. you will want us to pay to watch next. Not all racers are flush. think on. >:( >:(

[Jim Spencer]

So this extra facility to accomodate those that want to use PT's, at extra complication to both the booking in and the timekeeping staff is them being inconsiderate is it?
Nobody is making you use a PT use a handout one, that the section provides.

And its the section that runs the meeting, the sections are made up of racers, the BRCA is made up of racers, its all one and the same thing.

In fact ask yourself one question:-

Why should these few people give up their time to run these events so you can race?

Jim

[ColinO]

Jim Spencer wrote :-

Why should these few people give up their time to run these events so you can race?

because over the years I've had a great deal of satisfaction from racing model cars and it's my way of putting something back :-*

[Jim Spencer]

By eck, somebody who appreciates their efforts, top marks that man!

I knew my faith in human nature wasn't wrong, ;D

Jim

[big al]

Hi there. my point is this: the 12th section timing kit is very old. if I used a PT & it didn't count my laps. Is it :A its down to my kit in the car and my installation of the PT. or B the BRCA timing system. At £46 a go for a PT so it is easer for the officers of the meeting to there job.I feel the racer looses out if anything went wrong.
I have put more back in to this sport to last a life time. I know what racers want,cos I listen to them. 12th racing can be cheap but the BRCA don't listen to a fare deal.EG. who asked the racers about the body shell list..... No one...
You took it upon yourselves to sort it and without forthought and cost peoples money. I have ten shells I have paid for which are no longer legal only due to two people disliking them. That's £80 I have lost due to the BRCA officers. I can't afford that to loose money like many racers in the same boat.
The efforts don't go unoticed by all that take part & 12th racing would not be the same without them...but the trade is not happy..The importers are not happy.. & some racers are not happy... I love the 12th racing but ur killing it. Its prototype racing at the end of the day. The only class left with some flexabilty. Please use one one rule thats not in the handbook.... The commonsence rule.... As i was told many many years ago at my first national..K.I.S.S. please post. many thanks Big al..

[rice98w]

alan,

can i just say thank you, so far it seems whatever i say with my opinion in it regarding shells and importers etc gets me in trouble...and no-one seems to agree with me, now you do and thats great!

whilst this has been discussed before, you wern't present discussion so i'll help you out.


who asked the racers about the body shell list..... No one...

we voted for it at the EGM, but NOBODY asked us about the criteria for selecting shells, so the comitee took it into their hands, and they came up with "it has to be a scale representation as per rule 1"......what i want to know is, who bloody stocks 99% of them shells??? errrrrmm yeh that would be NOBODY!!


You took it upon yourselves to sort it and without forthought and cost peoples money. I have ten shells I have paid for which are no longer legal only due to two people disliking them. That's £80 I have lost due to the BRCA officers. I can't afford that to loose money like many racers in the same boat.


i had 50quids worth of trinity bentlys... :'( :'( and that peeved me off, im 16 and cant afford to just loose that kind of revenue...can anyone? its alright for those of you that just use the proto nissan, and its alright for those people to say "no you cant run that shell" because they wont loose anything!


The efforts don't go unoticed by all that take part & 12th racing would not be the same without them...

they're efforts dont go un-noticed, i think deep down they all know that...i've said this before, i (at the moment ;)) couldnt do any better! although maybe in a couple of seasons....(me and jim have discussed this in emails :))

alan, im not using a PT, i dont agree with them, like i have said... i think timing should be the brca's responsability as like you say- who do the faults lie with if it goes wrong? everyone is in "limbo" so to speak and the finger can be pointed at either party, where as before if it didnt count your laps it couldnt be the racers fault (unless you forgot your transponder! ::))

i for one dont want a big argument, we've bin down that road before several times...and i just got in trouble for continually posting MY opinion...so no-guns blazing please, just discuss :)

cheers
matt

[Jim Spencer]

Hi

Your both still missing the point, YOU ARE THE BRCA, its made up of racers, there is literally no one on the 1/12 commitee who doesn't race.

The comiittee the racers elected, interpret the rules the racers vote in, if a small minority don't like that they can put in their proposal at the AGM and change it or not depending on how the racers vote.
Or better still seeing as nobody is any more or less of a member than anyone else they can volunteer to do it themselves.

I would remind you that all the commitee did the bodyshell voting and as I have stated before it was at worst 6 to 1 on any individual shell.

I would also remind you that our sections bodyshell rule (and list) is considerably more liberal than EFRA's, and seeing as that effects most of Europe I would think that will effect the importers considerably more than just us.

Lastly the 1/12 section timing kit is only just 1 year old, its a system RC, and I believe the software has now also been brought right up to date.

So remember this, nothing is anybody elses "responsability" were all in the same club, other people have volunteered to do something for you, should they choose to change that then it would be up to you or another member to do it.

Jim

[Jim Spencer]

Gentlemen, and any ladies who might be about

The above 3 posts I apologise for.

This bodyshell topic has been kicked to death by Big Al, Matt and a few others for months and they're not happy, (and don't we all know about it ;) ), but i'm not going to say who's right or wrong.

But I will always defend the process of the EGM and the work of the committee, and I apologise for that being necessary.

Now this bodyshell topic is not going to even be mentioned on this thread once more, because if it is i'll deleate the post.

This thread was started by Gareth who was going out of his way to help, so can we please get back on track.

Thanks

Jim

[Jim Spencer]

Gareth

Can you put me down for 1 personal transponder please.

Thanks

Jim

[Mark Stiles]

Like jim said, we are the BRCA, so if you don't like the idea of a rule being imposed, then vote against it at the AGM. If you think you will be outnumbered (as with the bodyshells), then find some other racers who have the same views as you and tell them to go to the agm.

A couple of years ago, a group of people from up north wanted to ban ESC's in mardave V12 racing. Fortunately, enough people voted against it at the agm to stop the rule being imposed.

What I'm saying is, there's not much point in arguing about a rule; a) if you weren't at the AGM where it was voted for or b) you are one of a minority who are opposed to a rule which the majority of racers agree with.

[MattW]

PT's not counting - must admit this is a concern i had some time ago. That said i do have one and used it at Chesterfield, most touring car nationals and the off rd GP in Belgium. It hasn't missed a single lap to my knowlege so it hasn't been an issue.

I have one as it is one less thing to think about it. This is especially an issue in my corally 12th as sometimes it could be a little tricky to put a handout in with the shell properly fitted (screw down posts) - hence more hastle if running a little late for a heat.

[PUASHP]

I've run personnel transponders in my touring car at club, some nationals and in my 1/12th car at Chesterfield last season and it's never missed a lap.

I have a bigger problem forgetting to put a normal transponder in before the race and missing all my laps.

Looking forward to the new season, can't wait.

Paul

PS If you don't like the bodyshell ruling vote it out at next years EGM, until then rules are rules, sorry chaps.

[Glenn Atterton]

Ran one @ Chesterfield GP 2003 for the 1st time. Sure is a lot less hassle than having to go for a transponder.

Missed a few laps I think as I Q 3rd in the D when I was expecting the A ;D or was that more to do with the driver ;)

Would love to run one @ all rc events I attend

[B_Final_Bob]

Until I am forced into buying a Personal Transponder (as in, I need one to enter the meeting) I won't have one, what's the point? The BRCA, well host club, provide us with 20 transponders that are free to use. Why spend £45 on a PT when I can use the host clubs transponders for nothing?? There is nothing wrong with the current timing system, when things start to get complicated, things start to go wrong.

[Oliver]

I have a bigger problem forgetting to put a normal transponder in before the race and missing all my laps.

I have got a PT in my touring car at the moment - my problem isn't remembering to pick up the handout for my 12th... it's remembering to take it back!

OLI

[Eric Dunn]

Colin allready has his own Pesonal Transponder thanks ;D

[KRob]

I believe the newer PT's come with a much shorter lead then they used to.
Much better for 12th.

[bob burr]

I know im not a 1/12th racer but do know about the new PTs having run them at Bedworth for nearly 2 years.
You will get more trouble with hand outs than with PTs, in nearly 2 years we have not had 1 PT fail to count (when it is conected), most trouble is with hand outs, driver takes wrong number transponder is the obvious one, batteries going flat at the end of a long meet if they are not fully charged, and drivers not picking a transponder up at all reguarly happen.
Most people who buy a PT even at the high cost they are now, say its the best thing they did.

[PDW]

I must agree with Bob - I have used a PT all season in the TORC Series without a single hiccough. They can be fitted to suit the weight distribution of the car, placed to minimise any race damage and once fitted are forgotten.

And am I reading this right - people spend £50+ on bodyshells that last one season, but don't consider £45 on a lifetime-lasting, easy to fit, totally reliable device that makes the organisers job easier, and virtually guarantees a correct lap score, too much money? I must be getting old!!

I also notice that none of the moaners are complaining about using 3300s, and whip out and buy them immediately. So, new technology is OK your car goes faster, but not if it makes sure you get the right lap score? I'm not getting old, just more rational!!

[marcoski]

I agree with the rationale of your post, but why would you not get a correct score on the old system, if anything it is more accurate.

[B3buggy]

hi,
just want to ad a little thing from sunday at the torc, I have had my PT for about 1 and half years and no problems , until sunday when i was geting interferance all day, (reciever was on its side, until i decided to put it flat and it worked perfectly ???) anyway , untill the finals where it was fixed and a had the first clean run in the first leg of the final, but my personal played up and didnt count all my laps :-[ i had a 37 second lap around bedworth and no i didnt miss the loop. and i never finished the computer never registered me :-[, loosing me 4 laps in total, also the power was perfectly fine, the green light was on. second leg was fine, but i didnt change anything between these two finals to affect it ::)

But yes apart from that it is one of the best things i have bought, and it was cheaper than the prices now.
would say the handouts are as reliable an the PT's, it is just the hassle of collecting it ;D

ross

[bob burr]

Yes this young man and his farther did come in and see me on sunday, he qualified last of everyone there 12 laps,first final he did 13 laps and said he had missed 4 laps ? the computer did pick it up he had obviously missed the loop, if it was faulty why did it work OK in the last final 16 laps, and all the heats ?as for his last lap if it was over 25 secs (last lap time) it would count him out, simple
Leave it for you to decide but its a Touring Car matter and should not be discused on here.
PS even if it was faulty thats 1 PT problem, we had problems with 4 handouts one way or another.

[Mark Stiles]

Could positioning affect it. Not sure whether carbon fibre blocks the beam/tranny from passing through? ???

[steven bough]

when using a BRCA transponder,you weigh the car with out the transponder-when using a PT does the overall weight include the PT?

Do you need an extra channel on your receiver to run them?
...
Depending on the above-i might buy one when im flush etc

[Eric Dunn]

We have been using PT's for about 2 years at Ribble Valley RC (Preston) and they have worked very well. To overcome the problem of visitors we have been lending a PT on a deposit for the meeting.
We have noticed a real improvement in efficiency of running the meetings since the introduction of PT's.
The only problem we have had is where some recievers don't supply power to the spare port and obviously the mechanical speed controllers, in both cases a 'Y' splitter lead cures the problem. :)

[bob burr]

Dont get me started on weight ??? have a proposal in for this years AGM for touring cars.
As for the young mans laps its simple, missed the loop = 1 lap out of time on last lap = 1 lap, would of given him 15 laps eg no problem with his PT.
Like i said all clubs and racers who use them find a huge benefit.

[Oliver]

Oh no not weight....

Lets leave that one for now... At Grays we've had the RC system for about 2 years now. We've had 3 handout transponders playing up - and last week was the first time we had a problem with a PT - oh no it wasnt a problem some people don't know the difference between black and red wires ;D

OLI

[gbevens]

Weight, easy, the 800g does not include the bug. this is just harder work for tech and might mean the racer running an identifing sticker

[steven bough]

say i had a pt,when i comes in to be checked after ive raced do i also after take the pt out before you can weigh it?if so this could be a bit time consuming,between the end of the race & having to get back out for marshaling has ive noticed the people using pt normally have them so there fixed in permently??

[Oliver]

You shouldnt need to remove the PT - if your car is fitted with one (and this will be shown on the heat listing (?) ) then your car has to weigh 800g on the scales. If you're not using a PT, then your car has to weigh 780 (ie 800g - 20g for transponder).

I thinks....

OLI

[gbevens]

Oli,

Almost spot on, the cars using PT's will have to weigh in at 800g + the weight of a PT, which works out at about 812g of the top of my head (this is where the extra work for tech comes in) and a car using handouts will have to come in at 800g, as rule 1.2 states

1.2 Minimum weight is 800 grams. This weight is exclusive of any equipment that is used to record laps and time during racing, including its supplied fixing

so, the weight does not include the bug but does (or can) include the clip/servo tape (depending on if you are using a pt or not). If your car was spot on the 800g + PT weight I am sure you would have the opportunity to remove the pt and have it re-checked to the 800g limit, but this would be the only reason for having to remove one during tech.

Hope this clears things up

??? ???Gareth ??? ???

[Oliver]

Yeah, after racing touring cars this year in the STCC (and scrutineering them at 1 round) i have definatly seen the need to make sure teh rules are posted clealy and everyone understands them.

As for your idea of a sticker on the cars of those that are (or aren't) using PTs - ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!

Maybe something like that should be adopted for the TC's too - dunno if that needs a "rule in the rule book" or not...

At Grays we have just adopted the idea that those with PTs run a small sticker on their front window (so scrutineering is soooo much simpler)

Hopefully i'll get to some 12th Nats this year (depends on A levels etc...)

OLI

[PDW]

Gareth, thanks for the clarification.

For anyone's info, the weight of a PT is about half the weight of a handout (including clip, etc). For the weight weenies, that is a 1.5% reduction!!!

It's time this were clarified across electrics, as PTs are getting more and more common, and more and more convenient for those who race at more than one club and/or more than one class. Too late for this year, but at the next AGM we should debate the "800g all up" concept being used in TORC this year (well 1500g, as its TC!!).

[gbevens]

As for your idea of a sticker on the cars of those that are (or aren't) using PTs - ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!

Praise for this one should go to Jim