on a lighter note what truggy will win

[Gasaxe]

Hi all, on a lighter note before the truggy national battle comensiss.......

what truggy and what engine is going to win the first ever truggy national

[stot]

:( hong nor with a go..

but poss a mugen with a ninja:D

[mr4man]

Are we talking the pros or the clubmans?
mr booth i think but will be fought hard for it, and maybe an rb powered mugen for the clubman:)

[Gasaxe]

are we talking 21 or 28 engines ????????????????

[stot]

:D overall a 21 will win at the end of they day... even in the sates they are the prefered choice:D

[Neil McRae]

i think its a fight between hong nor/go and xray/os with the odd Hobao/RB appearing...

Neil.

[Asterix]

I reckon its going to be close between the Xray and Hobao. There are quite a few good drivers and i think the Xray sponsored drivers, i.e. Jon and Lee, will be putting up a good fight but you cant rule out jamie, Graham or Jon for example. There are quite a few top drivers going!!

I reckon its going to be a Hobao/GO combo for the clubmans though.....

[Gasaxe]

dont rule out the Mugens, I think at clubman level the mugen will come out tops....its a pitty Mugen dont have a top truggy driver

My Mugen got me from the G final to the C final at our local club. I think I may have bought the wrong engine for my truggy went for a OS 21, but we will see

[Neil McRae]

jsut to be clear, we don't have a clubman championship this year. We can't afford the throphys this year, and we have limited resources in setting this up.

One of the actions I will propose at next years AGM is to add that.

Neil.

[Andy Taylor]

jsut to be clear, we don't have a clubman championship this year. We can't afford the throphys this year, and we have limited resources in setting this up.

One of the actions I will propose at next years AGM is to add that.

Neil.

That is a shame Neil.

Let me ask a question and come back to you! I have a suggestion to make!

The only thing I would ask is how a clubman would be defined. I guess it could be any driver who has not made an A final?? rally cross use 2 Afinals but with only 4 rounds instead of 8 one A final would seem fairer.

[Neil McRae]

Yes, that sounds fine to me. If we are happy to have this without trophies or I'm sure we could get a couple of boxes of maltersers or something :D

Neil.

[stot]

:D would be good to get something... see if a sponser can dig deep for a couple of pots... all well and good the top lads getting the silverware... they have a shed load already..


dont dissmiss the mugen... it will be good.. not in my hands.. but mr wilcox is booked in for three rounds so they have a small chance but have no back up driver..... neil have you looked into how many makes are running and the numbers of them..sounds like we need a poll..:cool:

[stevie/shirtman]

wouldnt everyone be classed as a clubmans seens theres not been any truggie national before or is just an "a" final in general ?????

[Gasaxe]

anyone who owns a model shop or any sponsored driver etc, would in my eyes not be a clubman.

If its ok with the Truggy BRCA committee, I will put up 3 trouphies for best Clubman over all four rounds 1st 2nd and 3rd.

Rules are as above shop owners, sponsered drivers and anyone in conection with the model trade will not be involved

[stot]

:D think it would be good if as someone said any one that makes an a during the series is also not included in the clubmans class...in rx any one makeing two is classed as f1 for the year...

its very good of you to offerthese... many thanks john:D

[Asterix]

well if thats the case then maybe anyone making two 'A' finals (someone might just have a blinding day!). this will definitely eliminate the top drivers from clubmans but wont penalise the driver that happens to get it all right for one day.

[Neil McRae]

I'll talk with the commitee on this.

[Andy Taylor]

well if thats the case then maybe anyone making two 'A' finals (someone might just have a blinding day!). this will definitely eliminate the top drivers from clubmans but wont penalise the driver that happens to get it all right for one day.


If you allow this you can have a driver making B and just doing enough next round and then an A last round. using the rallyross system that works (and yes we lost the clubman title on last but one meeting on this rule) so we know it works ;) is good but its over 8 rounds . Its also over 8 rounds with 6 to count. Truggies over 4 rounds with 3 to count means the clubman winner could win the A final at the last meeting if they needed it!

Standard of drivers at these events will mean if you make an A you will be BETTER than a clubman.
Steves ideas are well intended but two things spring to mind.

No 1.Ian Hancox owns 1st models and yet he typifies a clubman! as does Steve himself and he also owns a Model shop. Owning a shop does not mean your standard of driving goes up .

No 2. Who IS a sponsored driver?? Distributer and Factory supported drivers are easy to spot. Shop supported are less easy and if you get 10% discount as a good customer does that make you supported??

There is also the option of having self removal from the clubmens if you feel you are a sponsored driver plus 1 A final and then the obvious Factory and distrubuter supported drivers also excluded.

All of these suggestions can be put to the committee by Neil.

[stot]

:D see its good to talk..:)

[jondell]

If you compare the buggy entry list to the truggy entry list, the standard of the buggy is list much stronger (this in itself is no bad thing). potenially a C-B finalist of buggies, could make every A final in truggies. that person would be a clubman in buggy, but not in truggy even though there ability is the same as is their backing.

now maybe in years to come Truggy could be come more competitve than buggies, but for 2007 it is not. in order to make the clubman championship in 2007 meaningful, competitive and interesting for those able to do it. i would suggest the following:-

1/ If you are a non clubman in the BRCA 1/8th off road buggy class, you are also classed as a non clubman in the BRCA Truggies class.

2/ If you have previously finished in the top 10 of BRCA Truggies class you are classed as a non clubman. (i.e. the 2006 champs)

just my thoughts

[Neil McRae]

Jon - not bad ideas but with effectly a single race last year its a bit unfair on the drivers who made the top 10. A good example would be Sham Choudry who in my view is a clubman (and put in a great drive last year) but made the top ten at Ledbury.

Neil.

[jondell]

Was that top 10 of the championship with both days combined?

There will be winners and losers in any situ. If the above finds only one person who loses out, then it would not to bad considering the other options.

What happens in buggies is, if someone is doing well and makes 2 A finals, that person is eliminated from the championship. Last year was a bit of a culling with first Sam Taylor, then Elliot Boots and then Lee Taylor all being eliminated from the clubmans championship. At the start of the year they probably had goals of winning the Clubmans championship to help them within the sport. They started the year as clubmans (and probably finished the year with the same racing budget), but did not get the just reward for their years efforts. In truth these 3 were the real top three of the 2006 clubmans championship, not those who have their names on the trophies (sorry).

Admittedly there needs to have a cut off and the 2 A final rules was there to stop drivers of other classes coming into 1/8th and stealing the candy. Examples being Alsop & Cragg. The 2 Taylor’s and Boots had been doing 1/8th for many a year and in my opinion the 2 A final ruling did not work in their case.

Point is, in Truggies, it currently would (could??) be easier to get into an A final than Buggies and over a shorter period of time (ie 4 rounds) you could take yourself out of a championship that you thought would be a good target.

Deciding on who’s in and who’s out at the start of the year must the way forward.

[Asterix]

how about for this year just everyone thats factory or distributor sponsored are not eligable for clubman. We all know who the "proper" sponsored drivers are and this is supposed to be a fun series after all.

PT's, 5 crystals, clubmans etc its all getting a bit serious and too much like rallycross before we have even got going.

I say take out the likes of hazlewood, booth, taylor, howells, etc etc and then let the rest of us fight out the clubmans irrespective of how we do at each event. By defining the rule, factory or distributor sponsored not clubmans, it makes it all fairly easy and fun for the rest of us.

[Andy Taylor]

Last year was a bit of a culling with first Sam Taylor, then Elliot Boots and then Lee Taylor all being eliminated from the clubmans championship. At the start of the year they probably had goals of winning the Clubmans championship to help them within the sport. They started the year as clubmans (and probably finished the year with the same racing budget), but did not get the just reward for their years efforts. In truth these 3 were the real top three of the 2006 clubmans championship, not those who have their names on the trophies (sorry).

Admittedly there needs to have a cut off and the 2 A final rules was there to stop drivers of other classes coming into 1/8th and stealing the candy. Examples being Alsop & Cragg. The 2 Taylor’s and Boots had been doing 1/8th for many a year and in my opinion the 2 A final ruling did not work in their case.



Interesting that jon and I do not seem to agree on the way forward :) It does show how hard it will be too please all of the people all the time.

Having been the "victim" of the cut off I still maintain that whilst Lee did not win a Clubmans trophy he won much more than that in my eyes. As you are aware you get an automatic entry to the Euros by winning the clubmans title.

As it stands now we do NOT have a direct entry into the Euros A and will have to rely on re allocation or no shows as Lee is 20th with 19 allocated entries and Damian Tigwell getting the 19th place. The worst one loosing out is Elliot Boots as he had finished in the allocated places but dropped out as the clubmans winner will be given one first!

But we had a choice...not many people would be aware of......Lee could either try to retain the Junior Title and loose the guaranted euros place or just do enough and win the clubmans. His knew my views and his reply was he would rather loose trying than have it handed to him...I knew then he had grown up.
Again not many people know but Lee was one place off the Junior title and only needed one more place in that last B final but finished right behind local track specialist Michael Waller. This made it special, not only did he try his heart out as he finished tied on points in the Juniors with Elliot Boots who has been the driver (and since) of the year! But he never gave up (which he used to do when not winning).

So I know what jon is saying and why but last year was special for different reasons .If it had not been for the system that puts you out of the clubmans who knows what would have happened!

I suspect that the racing in truggies might even be closer that we see in buggies. One for the historians LOL

With 21 plus drivers who I can see at first glance should be non clubmans potentially making an A final any one else doing so will mean you are good. Whether it means you should not be a club man who knows?? But its down to the committee to decide. At at least we are actually having a debate which has to bode well for the future!

[Gasaxe]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO gentlemen, Can we keep it simple and as said before, sponsored drivers and the like out. As for the A final stuff........ if we have 12 car finals there are bound to be some clubmans getting in the A finals and if your unlucky to scrap in the A final last on the grid, I would say well done, not bad luck you are out of the clubman class.........???????

Andy to your point about me and Ian, I have kicked out shop owners out of the clubman championships as if we wanted to we could run the best of everything giving us an advantage, I myself run martins hand me downs, but we could go mad on our cars if we wanted to.

I think sponsored drivers and CO would work great, true clubman racing

[Andy Taylor]

how about for this year just everyone thats factory or distributor sponsored are not eligable for clubman. We all know who the "proper" sponsored drivers are and this is supposed to be a fun series after all.

That depends on what makes a series fun?? What do you see as fun? and why!




PT's, 5 crystals, clubmans etc its all getting a bit serious and too much like rallycross before we have even got going.


Why serious?? Surely we are seeing problems before they ocurr and heading them of at the pass. In mangement speak see are looking outside the box and being proactive following a series of dynamic risk assessments.

What is wrong with being like rallycross?? after all the cars are so close to rallycross that part is inevitable. The reason you have got so many crossovers from rallycross is they can use MUCH of their rallycross gear to do both classes. This is why Mosters never too off truggies will!

All we are doing is ensuring lttle johnny and big mick who will never make an A fianl at either discipline get a chance to shine!



I say take out the likes of hazlewood, booth, taylor, howells, etc etc and then let the rest of us fight out the clubmans irrespective of how we do at each event. By defining the rule, factory or distributor sponsored not clubmans, it makes it all fairly easy and fun for the rest of us.

I dont have much of an issue with your suggestion which is exactly what jon is saying BUT remember the guy who starts the season as a clubman could end up top 5 in 4 A finals and could be a sponsored driver before the season is out! and is THIS what you want??

You must also realise that some "sponsored drivers are sponsored for other reasons and not always purely on ability!

As stot says its good to talk!

[Andy Taylor]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO gentlemen, Can we keep it simple and as said before, sponsored drivers and the like out. As for the A final stuff........ if we have 12 car finals there are bound to be some clubmans getting in the A finals and if your unlucky to scrap in the A final last on the grid, I would say well done, not bad luck you are out of the clubman class.........???????


keeping it simple is easy Steve. make an A final and you are out! not much simpler than that BUT I agree making it fair and equitable is harder. which is surely what forums like this are about! Neil and committee run the thing but take input from us all! But they decide at the end of the day





Andy to your point about me and Ian, I have kicked out shop owners out of the clubman championships as if we wanted to we could run the best of everything giving us an advantage, I myself run martins hand me downs, but we could go mad on our cars if we wanted to.


Appreciate that Steve but you should see Ians car LOL still going with more play than shakespeare. I know what you mean though. I just feel you guys are what most racing is all about . Not blessed with talent but just like racing anyway! :eek: :D :p ;)





I think sponsored drivers and CO would work great, true clubman racing

I am not arguing just saying be careful as defining a sponsored driver is harder than you think! no discount 5% 10% 15% when does it kick in??

[jondell]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO gentlemen, Can we keep it simple and as said before, sponsored drivers and the like out. As for the A final stuff........ if we have 12 car finals there are bound to be some clubmans getting in the A finals and if your unlucky to scrap in the A final last on the grid, I would say well done, not bad luck you are out of the clubman class.........???????

Andy to your point about me and Ian, I have kicked out shop owners out of the clubman championships as if we wanted to we could run the best of everything giving us an advantage, I myself run martins hand me downs, but we could go mad on our cars if we wanted to.

I think sponsored drivers and CO would work great, true clubman racing


your never keep it simple. truggies will one day be the next new IFMAR event, probably by 2009 (inbetween the buggy one). then you will have people trying to qualify for a worlds event. fun events are always well organised events and when the entry numbers are high, a strict time table has to be kept. planning and fore thinking is required.

also the loose-ness of saying 'sponsored drivers out' will cause allsorts of issues. not that it bothers me, but myself as an example..... i'm not sponsored.... i just use the 2nd hand gear of someone else and buy anything else that i need. so what is sponsored?????

[stot]

;) it is hard to class as who is sponsered and who not.. i know some people are sponsered by companys outside the industry and fairplay to them.. they may not be the best drivers in the world but why should they be dicounted from a clubmans class.. seems we have split open a can of worms here... hope the committee come to an amicable decision as would be good for us meer mortals to have a stab at.. as andy says there is a lot of rally x drivers haveing a go and in my book a good driver will be able to make the best not mater what the class... i have set my sights on makeing maybe a d final.. and that will be on a good day,,, if i am lucky... i hear thhe moan about the similarity with the rally x with pts 5 xtals ect.... what else could you exspect... clubs all to have a handout set of 20 transponders.. imagine keeping track of that lot and the number of frivers makes 5 xtals an esential require ment.. we are not talking about a club race here with 50 drivers and all day to do it in..its really great how popular its proveing and bodes well for future years and there is fun there to be had... does lee not have enjoyable days racing... bet he does i loved every national i ever did only the thought of not makeing a final took the edge off it..that is not an issue with this series... but if we had a clubmans class lets see how many people want to be included in it.. bet most the named drivers do not want to be included in it..in years to come and when funds build in the section it would be nice if we had overall finishing posistion sheilds to give out like in rx..

as i said good to talk and lets keep it that way... its all for fun remember...:D

[Gasaxe]

Gent please............. Everytime a post is put on here, it just get wripped apart and blown all top of perportion.

A clubman driver is someone who works 5 or sometimes 6 days a week and then on there day off, comes along to a track and races there car, at club level and wants to have a go at national or reginal level,who is not connected to any company, shop, etc

NORMALLY KNOWN AS THE AVERAGE WORKING MAN

Gents these are toy cars and we race for plastic cups

[Asterix]

LOL!!!

However, i kind of class myself as one of those people that are going to be affected by this. I get a shop drive for the Hyper ST BUT i am not a good driver by any means. I help promote the shop i drive for in anyway I can and as mentioned previously its not just your driving skills that get you help. My concern is with these rules i will be put up with the likes of Jon Hazlewood, Jamie Booth, Jon Howells etc who will put in twice the laps i can in a 5 min race.

I can really see the problem Lee Taylor faced when he, through his skill, got promoted out of the clubmans class and into technically the sponsored class without actually being sponsored.

As mentioned, does someone that get 10% discount at a shop in return for putting the shop stickers on their car class as sponsored and therefore count them out of the clubmans.

I still suggest keeping it really simple and just taking out the Factory and distributor sponsored drivers.

[Kevin Alcock]

Read last years BRCA handbook page 53 items 20.1 & 20.2 although these have only ever been applied to 1/10th Nitro Trucks.
This years book is the same.

[Andy Taylor]

Read last years BRCA handbook page 53 items 20.1 & 20.2 although these have only ever been applied to 1/10th Nitro Trucks.
This years book is the same.


Kev are you saying this years book is the same as last years or just that section??


As I read it this this would mean only 3

Jon Hazlewood
Graham Alsop
Dave Bailey
will be expert drivers from rallycross plus the top 10's from last year!

These include
1 JONATHAN MURPHY
2 NATHAN POWNEY
3 DAVID BIRD
4 DAVE CLUTTERBUCK
5 STEVE HADLEY
6 MATHEW POWNEY
7 ANDY BIGNALL
7 JOSH POWNEY
9 BRYN POUND

1 BEN CHAMPION
2 DAN ADAMS 1
3 JOSEPH ADAMS
4 EDWARD McMILLAN
4 SCOTT CHAMPION
6 JULIO PITTELLI
7 STUART McMILLAN
7 STEVE BELLWOOD
9 GRAHAM GRICE
9 JON HANDFORD

1 JAMIE BOOTH
2 SIMON WILLETS
3 BRENNAN RALLS
4 STUART WILCOX
5 MIKE CRADOCK
6 LEE TAYLOR
7 MARK KNIGHT
8 LEWIS MILLMAN
9 BRUCE THOMPSON
10 DAVE CLUTTERBUCK

I think its just as well we are having an amicable debate as the rule obviously did not take into account the way things would go in the future!

[Andy Taylor]

LOL!!!



I can really see the problem Lee Taylor faced when he, through his skill, got promoted out of the clubmans class and into technically the sponsored class without actually being sponsored.



We did not actually see it as a problem Dan LOL Some people did but not us. BTW Lee has always been sponsored. first by me second by me and third by me. LOL

Along the way we have also had support from DC Racing, CDS Models, 1st Models Amerang, Nitro Models and now Mirage. Whether you could call all of those sponsorship I am not sure! Which is why I see a Mine field ...for us its quite clear. Its the others I am trying to ensure get a fair crack of the whip...if possible!

[Andy Taylor]

;) it is hard to class as who is sponsered and who not.. i but if we had a clubmans class lets see how many people want to be included in it.. bet most the named drivers do not want to be included in it..in years to come and when funds build in the section it would be nice if we had overall finishing posistion sheilds to give out like in rx..

as i said good to talk and lets keep it that way... its all for fun remember...:D

You are spot on there Stot but if rules are in place them I guess thats it!

10 Trophies for the top 10 finishers in Truggies have been offered to the committee and you have already seen offers of trophies on the day from Steve!

Its a start! I also guess host clubs will want to be providing trophies for each event.

[stot]

:D its good that there will be some pots to hand out....

when we do a club series we try to do a lot sometimes down to 20th... it is worth it when you see te look on their faces and you know that they really are pleased and gives them encouragement to try again next time... what ever the committe decide on we will all abide with and be happy if people want it different then they better attend the agm and have their say...

trophies or not............. i really am looking forward to attending these national tt meets...i think there will be a better .... feel .. to them than the rally x ones...see you soon mate:rolleyes:

[stot]

:confused: when its says drivers that finished in the top ten.. does that apply to the previous year or all previous years as i understand it... and it says from all disaplins.. if you go back far enough that would dicount loads of people:)

[jondell]

just read the 2006 rules as set out in the handbook. i hope there was some changes at last year agm, otherwise there are some serious isses that will mess this championship up. has anyone got a copy of the rules for 2007?

[Kevin Alcock]

There are hardly any changes in this years handbook. The main one of interest is the 150cc fuel tank limit for Truggies.
1/10th has been thrown open, as a trial for this year, to any 1/10th Nitro Truck, 2wd or 4wd, that is commercially available regardless of engine size or gearing. So far there is very little interest in this class.
Any rules and guidelines that appear in the handbook are there for ever unless a proposal is made and they are removed at the AGM.
From all the discusion generated on the various web sites I expect a massive turnout for the next AGM.
I read Steves offer of trophies to be only three for the series and not for each round. I will speak to him to check if this is right.

I have not heard of these 10 trophies, offered, mentioned by Andy yet.

Neil and myself are the executive officers of the Truggy and Truck section supported by Dan Foulds, Dave Manning, Doug Hogg and Pete Black as area representatives.

[Asterix]

We did not actually see it as a problem Dan LOL Some people did but not us. BTW Lee has always been sponsored. first by me second by me and third by me. LOL


I gathered that and actually reading my post back i must have been distracted as i didnt finish it! Like you say it all depends on what your sights are. If you want to be one of the best in the country then you would have to start thinking and driver as the best and therefore not a clubman. Lee is a good driver and wants to up there with the likes of hazlewood, booth, howells etc etc so to be up there you have to be ranked with them the same.

That said its still a shame that technically he was one of the best clubman drivers in the series and he missed out on a much deserved trophy due to a sort of technicality.

It will be interesting to see how both lee and elliott develop over the next few years!

[Neil McRae]

jon,
as there wasn't a set of full rules we opted to make the committee to make decision about any issues that arise. In say that none arose last year.

I've not mailed the committee about BNRC's offer yet Kevin but will soon.

[jondell]

jon,
as there wasn't a set of full rules we opted to make the committee to make decision about any issues that arise. In say that none arose last year.

I've not mailed the committee about BNRC's offer yet Kevin but will soon.

unfortunatly the rules probably will get quoted at some point during the year, for me, these ones stand out.

section 6.1 - this talks about the national being 2 events over one weekend. clearly this is not the case, but the statemant is made and hence if someone wanted to contest it... they could.

section 6.3 - this talks about bumps. 2 cars will bump up to the next final and will take grid positions 9 and 10. this means we will have 10 car finals with 2 bumping up. note - with the number of drivers this is not achivable within the time frame of the day. you could have 14 car finals, 12 in, 2 bump up, but start from 9 & 10.

section 9.4 - all finals will be 15 minutes with a 20 minute a final. their is no allowance to adjust this.

section 2.7 - this a big one. it states that the wing must be attached to the body shell and must not be wider than the body shell. if you look at your truggy, i think you will find it does not conform to this rule. you could say that it refers to 1/10th trucks, but it dont say that (except at the top of the page and in which case there are no BRCA rules for truggies but those in section 21)

[Neil McRae]

unfortunatly the rules probably will get quoted at some point during the year, for me, these ones stand out.

section 6.1 - this talks about the national being 2 events over one weekend. clearly this is not the case, but the statemant is made and hence if someone wanted to contest it... they could.

section 6.3 - this talks about bumps. 2 cars will bump up to the next final and will take grid positions 9 and 10. this means we will have 10 car finals with 2 bumping up. note - with the number of drivers this is not achivable within the time frame of the day. you could have 14 car finals, 12 in, 2 bump up, but start from 9 & 10.

section 9.4 - all finals will be 15 minutes with a 20 minute a final. their is no allowance to adjust this.

section 2.7 - this a big one. it states that the wing must be attached to the body shell and must not be wider than the body shell. if you look at your truggy, i think you will find it does not conform to this rule. you could say that it refers to 1/10th trucks, but it dont say that (except at the top of the page and in which case there are no BRCA rules for truggies but those in section 21)


Jon,
The committee can override all of the above. No AGM needed. The main goal of the Truck section is about fun, not a 10 volume rule book.

Regards
Neil.

[Asterix]

There are hardly any changes in this years handbook. The main one of interest is the 150cc fuel tank limit for Truggies.
1/10th has been thrown open, as a trial for this year, to any 1/10th Nitro Truck, 2wd or 4wd, that is commercially available regardless of engine size or gearing. So far there is very little interest in this class.
Any rules and guidelines that appear in the handbook are there for ever unless a proposal is made and they are removed at the AGM.
From all the discusion generated on the various web sites I expect a massive turnout for the next AGM.
I read Steves offer of trophies to be only three for the series and not for each round. I will speak to him to check if this is right.

I have not heard of these 10 trophies, offered, mentioned by Andy yet.

Neil and myself are the executive officers of the Truggy and Truck section supported by Dan Foulds, Dave Manning, Doug Hogg and Pete Black as area representatives.

Strange as i took the above comment that the current rules in the handbook are enforceable. Maybe someone could knock some up and put them on the website. Thing this is i am not bothered as to me a truggy is a truggy, as long as its safe and has an engine, an exhaust and not an oversize fueltank i'm happy. However, there are other who would get you to stick to the rules in the handbook.

Either they are the rules or they are not, us drivers cant be expected to pick and choose what ones we think are valid and what ones are not.

[Kevin Alcock]

First off, all the rules being quoted in the above entries are being taken out of context. The vast majority of the handbooks content are for the 2wd 1/10 trucks and they are being relaxed to try and re-invigorate that class by amalgamating 2 & 4wd.
Outside of safety concerns you will find that Monsters and Truggies hardly have any rules at all.
The number of events changes from year to year as do the number to count, 3 From 4 is in this years book.
Neil is quite correct in saying that the committee was granted authority to change things around to try and regenerate interest in the sections national championship.
This event has been running for quite a number of years and 1/10 nitro and electric were the only classes originally, but things move with the times. Last year was not the first time that Truggies were run even though to hear some people talk you would think that it was. Some drivers were racing Truggies before you could buy one so they built their own by modifying 1/8th's or Monster Trucks.
With the Expert Clubman divide we can say that once you are classed as a Expert there is no going back no matter how long ago it was. What we will do this year is anyones guess up to now so keep the comment coming in, preferably on our own site, so that we the committee can take a suitable course. Read the rules if you must and please take note of what class they are refering to.
There was not a lot of point in Neil putting all the time and effort in to creating the site for all this discussion to be going on elsewhere.

[Gasaxe]

I have never done a national meeting apart from Ledburys National last year...Well done all, anyway we need to look at what nationals are, if looking at the Rallycross section it seems to me that the BRCA just want the top boys there, good clean driving pages of rules blarr blarr blarr. I beleave the Truck, truggie monster section should be different. If you want to race at the top end, spend lots of money and travel all over the place go do RallyX, if you want fun and to chill out come trucking,

If it takes off this year, next year I would run the trucks section on the same dates as the RallyX, wouldnt that be a great clubman event

Can we not get a truck section on this web page under the BRCA flag ?????, or is the BRCA ashamed of us second rate drivers

[Neil McRae]

Truck section website is under the BRCA flag. If you have a look at the offical BRCA website it is linked.

Regards,
Neil.

[Andy Taylor]

I have never done a national meeting apart from Ledburys National last year...Well done all, anyway we need to look at what nationals are, if looking at the Rallycross section it seems to me that the BRCA just want the top boys there, good clean driving pages of rules blarr blarr blarr. I beleave the Truck, truggie monster section should be different.


Ok steve can you give us some examples of what rules you would have or not have and why??

Second who are you suggesting the BRCA is?? Who exactly only want the top boys there?

and 3rd I agree a long hard luck needs to be taken as to what Nationals are!

One reason this needs to be done is because it would seem to me that you are indicating you need a way of removing the better drivers but still holding a National event? What purpose would this serve and why??

Surely the debate , very sensible debate in my humble opinion, supported from what Kevs latest reply said, by the T and T committee is the way forward

I am not clear on what type of event it is you are looking for and how you would expect it to run without rules??








If you want to race at the top end, spend lots of money and travel all over the place go do RallyX, if you want fun and to chill out come trucking,


Surely it does not matter how well you race if you choose to attend a National event you accept that money will have to be spent on travelling? What exactly does chilling out mean?? getting mullered on every corner and no rules in place to prevent this happening??

The attempts are being made to put in place a viable regional structure for rallycross but hurdles need to be overcome not least some clubs wanting the best of both worlds, independance (when it suits them) and Collaboration when it suits them!

By definition there will undoubtedly be a cross over between buggies and truggies as they are BOTH based on 1/8th scale. At regional level there is a likely hood of truggies being included on racedays with buggies because of numbers etc

A viable regional structure is the sensible way to go as it will give reduced/adapted rules but less travelling, Surely if you wat to chill out and have fun as you put it Club racing is there for everyone?? Having said that we have fun where ever we go racing and at whatever level! I cant speak for everyone else but I guess they would stop racing if they were not having fun?






If it takes off this year, next year I would run the trucks section on the same dates as the RallyX, wouldnt that be a great clubman event


There is already a series running that clashes with National where possible. Truggies will be included as well as buggies to ensure numbers are viable. Dates were not released until National dates had been set in stone and to be honest the series is a direct result of pleas from drivers. As you are running an event I am sure you are aware of it LOL It will be announced to the drivers in a very short space of time!

Why not run a B national series on the same dates as Rallycross events if you want to exclude rallycross National drivers?? As for being a Clubmans event you would find that some top rallycross drivers would still be running truggies if only because the manufacturers are directing their efforts into truggies just now as they see truggies taking of big style.



Can we not get a truck section on this web page under the BRCA flag ?????, or is the BRCA ashamed of us second rate drivers

I am sure that if the T an T section ask Rob they CAN get a section under the BRCA flag as you put it in the forums section. I assume you mean this web site and not web page in that respect though. Whether this is what the committee want is another matter as Kev has already indicated he would prefer discussion on the T an T own site!

I really dont understand why you would even think the BRCA is ashamed of what you term as second rate drivers?? In fact I dont really KNOW what and who you would term as second rate drivers?

If you mean drivers of lower ability ? without giving everyone a trophy for attending you will always have winners and loosers. or to put it in context drivers in first place and drivers in 120th place.

If you could spell out what it is you are after and why I guess committee's and AGM's will take note and provide it?



hope this provide a platform for debate and helps even a few people to think??

I am happy to have the mods move or split the thread as it is now way off topic even if it is an important and valuable contribution to the truck and truggy scene! Cosi???

[jondell]

Had my first truggy race yesterday. Really enjoyed driving it….. it’s…. well…. easy(er). After yesterday I personally will never run a buggy again, it was that good (or rather it made me look good). Truggies ARE fun to drive and currently are cheaper to run as tyres last longer and there’s less choice. However come the nationals when you need 2 set of tyres per meeting that will make it just as expensive.

Also what may have naively forgotten is that the minute the nationals received 70+ entries it suddenly became as competitive at Buggies, before it has even begun.

[Asterix]

Your right, truggies are fun and now i have run my Hyper ST the Xray XB8 has been sold and I reckon I will be running truggies from now on also.

[Kevin Alcock]

There are some interesting comments poping up since my last post.
The BRCA is run by its Executive committee in response to the BRCA members wishes as put forward at the AGM. There is no favouring the 'big boys' as it seems to be thought. Some classes have a preference entry for their nationals in their rules, but that is decided at their own section AGM. The executive of the BRCA do not dictate these things.
We do not have this system nor would I like to see one.
Being unsure of how this year would be supported the section AGM decided to wait for the Rally X dates to be fixed before setting ours. The reasons for this should be obvious.
With the interest shown so far this will probably not need to happen next year, but that is up to the AGM.
The AGM meeting keeps being mentioned as it is vitally important that the section members attend. This is the one meeting each year where the major decisions are made and the direction of the section is decided. Its not fair on those who do make the effort to attend for the rest of the membership to spend their time moaning about what should and should not be. Have one less drink the night before and get yourselves there. It can be seen from the make up of the committee that there are people willing to travel a good distance, at their own expense, in the interest of the sport. Not forgetting of course the organisers of club events and series that keep the rest of the year alive.
(note)
The BRCA rules as they appear in the yearly hand book, outside of safety and conduct, do not apply to any event other than the National Championships. If clubs holding meetings wish to adopt them that is their choice.

[Neil McRae]

Jon,
Glad you enjoyed it :D That LSP was sure moving well :D

Oh and I've got first dibs on position 112 in the championship! :D

At last years AGM the whole movement was about a fun, low stress racing championship. 1/8th RX is the F1 of RC Racing, Truggies I like to think of as WRC. That is what we are going to provide. Yes the rules are a bit thin on the ground but in my view thats an advantage and an opportunity. I urge all drivers to come to the Truggy Nationals to have fun and if they win a trophy then think of it as a bonus.

Participation and comradeship is what the Truck Section has always been about, winning trophys in my view (never having won one myself mind :)) is a bonus. So arrive with your friends, wind them up that you are going to beat them and laugh when they run out of fuel despite you telling them to come in for the last 3 laps, get the tyres glued up, get some bling on the truck and get in some big air!

If after this year the masses want something more like the RX nationals for truggies then bring a proposal to AGM and let your peers decide.

Regards,
Neil.

[Neil McRae]

One other thing I meant to add.

In my view the sections should do all in its power to ensure that everyone who wants to race, Both good and bad, pro and privateer and otherwise are able to race. This year we selected dates that did not clash with the 1/8th RX and next year I will propose the same.

Championships should be about who finding out who is the best and that should be open to all.

[stot]

:rolleyes: was a pleasure to have you there jon even if you did give us a pasteing.. more tyres you sponsered drivers use the better as the sh ones will filter through to us skint drivers.. i have my tyres for the season5 sets and intend to buy no more.. it was fun, hope you can make it to the next one mate...cheers john

one word of warning.. we have christened it the oaps class at our club.. buggies with stabilseers.. cheers kelvin.... so better make sure you have some grey showing..lol

was nice to see you neil.. why not come up to the next one with your car..:D

[Rob Fitzgerald]

one word of warning.. we have christened it the oaps class at our club.. buggies with stabilseers.. cheers kelvin.... so better make sure you have some grey showing..lol



ROFL :D

[stot]

:D sounds about right though.. dont you think..;)

[Velcrohead]

Had my first truggy race yesterday. Really enjoyed driving it….. it’s…. well…. easy(er). After yesterday I personally will never run a buggy again, it was that good (or rather it made me look good). Truggies ARE fun to drive and currently are cheaper to run as tyres last longer and there’s less choice. However come the nationals when you need 2 set of tyres per meeting that will make it just as expensive.

Also what may have naively forgotten is that the minute the nationals received 70+ entries it suddenly became as competitive at Buggies, before it has even begun.

Jon
I don't know what's gone wrong but I totally agree with you! :eek:
Truggies are a lot more fun (more forgiving/easier) to drive. But are not slower than the buggies (generally faster!):D
The tyres don't appear to wear at anywhere near the rate of a buggy and should last a long time.
I too don't know if I will bother racing my buggy again now!;)

[jondell]

dont worry, its just a glitch, your get over it, or maybe us truggy drivers should stick together

[gray.g]

I have never done a national meeting apart from Ledburys National last year...Well done all, anyway we need to look at what nationals are, if looking at the Rallycross section it seems to me that the BRCA just want the top boys there, good clean driving pages of rules blarr blarr blarr. I beleave the Truck, truggie monster section should be different. If you want to race at the top end, spend lots of money and travel all over the place go do RallyX, if you want fun and to chill out come trucking,

If it takes off this year, next year I would run the trucks section on the same dates as the RallyX, wouldnt that be a great clubman event

Can we not get a truck section on this web page under the BRCA flag ?????, or is the BRCA ashamed of us second rate drivers

Hi Steve, i think your getting a little worked up with the idea behind national events. Ive never raced at a rally x national because ive never owned a buggy, i run a truck and now theres a national series if i fancy it. Ive entered so obviously, i do and im going to each event with the full intention of enjoying myself. One of the highlights of last years meeting at ledbury was when i marshalled the truggy A final, the qaulity of driving and competitiveness was a joy to watch and im looking forward to this year mixing with the top drivers, doing my best even though i realise i wont be any where near the top guys.
Im thinking if you feel a little negative, about the way its going to be, then its best to just race at club level, just a small bunch turning up, no pressure, next to no rules, just a chill time which i must admit sounds great and i will be doing some of those myself but will be equally looking forward to the national weekends. Hope to see ya there;)
Regards, Graham.

[Gasaxe]

yes it winds me up a little, I just dont want to see the fun factor going out of Monster/truggy racing hense putting up some silver for the clubman section

[mr4man]

Agree with Jons comments, i find the truggy more fun to drive than the buggy, but truggy/truck drivers find buggys much harder to learn.
It was good to know i am as quick as u, if the car had held together lol.