The Grand Prix [Archive]

24-08-2003, 07:49 PM

Well that was a fun day, nice weather and well run, well done to everyone that organised it. It was fun to race against people from other parts of the country :D

However, here is a poser for you....Why did the B and C finalists get penalised :o It seemed totally unfair that B or C finalists, should only get one round of finals and then have to marshal three races, while the A finalists happily raced three rounds of finals (I thought we had gotten away from that) >:(

After discussions with another experienced racer, it seems that this is common practice at big events (not sure about the marshalling bit), but surely in todays world of equalities, the B and C finalists were positively discriminated against :(

Firstly, they paid the same as every other racer in their classes, but got two races less, and to rub salt in to the wound, they then had to marshal a further two races than usual. So, I don't know about any other racer, but I certainly felt a bit like a second class citizen at the end, which does NOT encourage me to want to race ::)

Mark McCulloch

24-08-2003, 08:28 PM

Who took away the top few spots in both classes?

Mark

SMTCA Focal Point

25-08-2003, 12:27 PM

sdrcc

25-08-2003, 01:30 PM

Thanks for the plaudits, as I said at the end of the meeting, it's a team effort, involving most of the club (they did all the scrutineering, helped with track setup and clear up, they painted the track, repaired the vandalism, collected and delivered the trophies and emptied the bins! Well Done)

I'd like to thank all the sdrcc club members for their help.

To answer Quentin's query, I hope everyone who attended can understand my decision.

The finals were slightly condensed to allow as many people in as high a final as possible. We change from 9 to 10 cars per final and in the process lost a D final.

After a look at the timetable, we realised that to get the finals ran as quickly as possible, we needed to be quite punctual. Therefore, we couldn't allow much time between all the finals, especially between the legs of the A finals.

So we saw that A finalists would only have 10 minutes of race time between them marshalling and racing again.

This would only have benefitted the "organised" sponsored drivers, with dads or friends and plenty of pit crew to really get organised. The solo privateer wouldn't have stood much chance at all.

That's why we decided to ask all the other drivers to contribute to this situation and help out the A finalists. Remember, we all knew the A Finalist would have to run 3 finals, and that is difficult when there are a lot of finals; when there isn't, it's very tough unless you are experienced and organised and have lots of help.

So to help the "new" A finalists compete, I wanted to ask the other finalists to cover the finals. We only realised this problem existed when highlighted minutes before starting the finals, and had to make a very quick decision.

As it was, I was running in two classes (big mistake!) and had to marshal six races! I wouldn't ask anyone to do anything I wasn't prepared to do myself. As it was, I volunteered to marshal a 7th final as there wasn't enough coverage.

It was a hasty decision, and in reflection rather unfair to the lower finals, but I don't think we compromised their final performance. I still managed to get two cars organised and drove back to back (3rd & 2nd).

I think if I had to make the same decision again, I'm sure I'd still do the same, but I'd be more aware of the implications. Yes it was unusual, but then the finals were unusually condensed.

In future, we will consider dropping the 3 leg format, but that would mean the exciting finish, the dramatic 2nd leg, the whole sense of occasion would be lost.

The decision was made in good faith, and for good reason, and I hope everyone who marshalled three finals would understand the situation with time for those A finalist who don't have lots of support, and would have struggled.

As I've said, the decision wasn't to help the "primadonnas", it was to help the other A finalists compete against them!

I hope otherwise, everyone had a great day, and that we still have two meetings left in the season, and the 19 turn championship is now a three or four way race! It'll be an exciting finish.

25-08-2003, 01:46 PM

In future, we will consider dropping the 3 leg format, but that would mean the exciting finish, the dramatic 2nd leg, the whole sense of occasion would be lost.

You missed my point Dom, why did the A finalist get three legs and rest only one? That is where it became unfair, and the rest of us were penalised. The marshalling was a separate issue, and okay, I accept your response on that one :- But I have great issue with the discrimination point >:(

I disagree that the excitement would be lost, infact it would be enhanced, as you only have one chance at it, and if a 'primadonna' as you put it messed up, then the other mere mortals would get a chance ;D In fact, if the A final had been just one leg, then one of our club members would have come third and received a trophy, but instead he ended up 5th :-

As far as the SMTCA point of view, do you positively discriminate against A, B C, etc finalists, by giving the A finalists three legs, and the rest only one leg?

sdrcc

25-08-2003, 02:13 PM

Sorry, yes, I mis-interpreted.

The 3 A finals is quite normal at national events; it is the method operated by the BRCA sanctioned events, and if we are looking to attract national level drivers then that is what we have to do.

It was very clear that 3 A finals were being run on the entry form, and that's the rules applied for this meeting only. It's a unique showcase event, to bring the best competitors to the area and see them race.

We have to provide the facilities that these people ask for. If we do, they they will come.

Now that's not the way we want to run at club level and the club runs as evenly as possible through all the levels of drivers attending the club events.

But the rules were laid out well in advance of either the entry or the event, and that's what we provided.

25-08-2003, 06:58 PM

Firstly hat's off to sdrcc, they all did a cracking job and ran a very good meeting which i enjoyed. The only downside was as mentioned above the marshalling schedule. I realise and understand why you done but i still think it was unfair to the other drivers who had to marshall 3 finals, esp as the A mod didnt do anything.. at least the A stock down one final.

Maybe something for future events that can be revised if there is more time to use in between each leg. Perhaps dropping to 3mins between each race would of saved more than enough time that could of been used later on in the day, as most people seemed ready well ahead of the 4min mark.

sdrcc

25-08-2003, 07:54 PM

Thanks Bryan. This post is not directed at your comments, but to everyone reading the full forum.

I'm sorry the marshalling decision has caused so much grief. I really thought the benefits outweighed the negative, but maybe not.

I am thinking I might not do it the same way again, if it's caused everyone so much grief.

In hindsight it needed an instant decision, and after all, I wasn't involved, but like everyone else, if I had made the A, I would have liked the opportunity to make the most of event, with whatever help was offered, and I didn't think anyone would grudge it.

I wasn't actually in either of the A finals and was in a good position to offer the lack of marshalling benefit to the A finalists. After all, it's the reason everyone was there - it's what they were qualifying for, and hoping they could squeak in and maybe get the chance. And I wasn't going to benefit, so was impartial.

Look at it from the whole, and not just the obligation of having to do some extra marshalling. It is a good idea and does mean a little extra work for the other finalists.

I will repeat, I had 6 marshalling duties to do, race two finals, provide interviews to the press and organise the trophies as well as the other issues that arose, like people forgetting to put their cars in to scrutineering and risk losing their times. I think I would have the most to complain about.

But surprisingly, I still think it might have been the best decision. Bold, but good for the underdogs in the A finals, and that's what counts.

In the end, I'd like to put this one to bed. It's history now, I will not do it again, unless I get a flood of emails and posts supporting it.

But I'd like the last word. Not everyone in the A final is what some here have called "primadonnas".

They are club racers and unsponsored, and driving competitively on a shoestring budget.

They drove well through the day and thouroughly deserve not just their place in the A final, but our respect for the achievement for doing so damn well when the rest of us failed to deliver. Maybe they deserve the prize of not having to marshal? Think about that!

For some of us, these people are our friends, we race with them every other week, and shouldn't grudge their skills and abilities. And would anyone of us not do what we can to help them do even better? No. That's the feeling I felt when making the decision to ask the B & C finalists to get out there and help the people we should be respecting, not envying.

Right, I've said all Iwill about this subject. I'll not answer any further questions on this, and look forward to the various and conflicting opinions that are bound to arise! :D

Good Racing everyone! See you all next year? Who knows?

rotax62

25-08-2003, 09:23 PM

Thanks to all at S.D.R.C.C for another great days racing ;D I must say to find both myself and Keiran in the 19 turn A finals at our first attempt at a big meeting a wee bit of a shocker at first :o But boy was the pace fast and I can only congratulate Dean Osbon on a superb demonstration how true champs drive and win
Keirans chuffed to bits winning the GP 19t jnr title with a £60 s/h pro2 and a £40 radio set how's that for shoestring racing ;D As for the three heat finals we nearly missed the second final cause I didn't realise that only the A finalists were getting three and thought we had plenty time to get our batteries charged we only just made it :o I know should have read the entry form more closely :-[ We're now looking forward to the next sdrcc rounds as the weekends results have really opened up the championship and the gauntlet has truly been thrown down ;D

Ps Good press coverage on the event but who's Dan Iannetta ;D ;D ;D

Gary ;)

25-08-2003, 09:51 PM

Yup okay Dom, I hadn't noticed the small print on the form, so the issue is with the BRCA, as that definitely infringes an individuals equality rights, as a club you were just following their rules, I am now happier 8)

Up to the finals I enjoyed the day and thought it ran well. I personally never begrudge anyone's abilities and find it a joy to see people enjoying the sport at all levels. I get very fed up when I see an experienced driver pouring scorn on a lesser experienced driver or marshall. At our club it doesn't matter who you are, that sort of behaviour is unwelcome and will not be tolerated, and yes it happened during the racing at the GP, despite your brief to the drivers not to do it. That is the sort of person I really don't care to marshal for, as they don't deserve it >:( I happily marshalled for Dean, as he is a gent ;D

I agree about reducing the gap in between races, after chatting with Dean, West London regularly have 120 racers each Sunday and only have a 1 1/2 minute gap in between races, which works well. We are also limited with large racer numbers and a small time frame at Inverurie, so our races occur quickly one after another, otherwise we too would run out of time.

But as you said, Dom, enough is enough, let's learn from this event and try to prevent it happening again ::)

25-08-2003, 11:03 PM

At the end of the day the event was run well and i believe most people enjoyed thereselve so you have to look upon it as a success and take any negative feedback(which is minimal) and work on how to make things bigger and better for next year.

Hopefully the people who travelled from down south will go home and tell everyone how great it is and they come up in there droves next year. I have to say its the busiest i have seen stonehaven in a long time and that was still qith quite a few scottish drivers not in attendance.

Altho i think you must of picked up the wrong car for the final Dom as it seemed rather 19t like down the straight ;)

P. Harrod

26-08-2003, 12:20 AM

Thanks to the Stonehaven guys for a well run meeting, I enjoyed the challenging track, and nice weather.
I don't think there was a big problem with the three A finals, it seems a normal thing for big events to have three legs for the top finals. The reduced marshaling for A finalists was certianly very helpful to me, I probably wouldn't have had cells charged for the last 19t A final otherwise.

George Stoker

26-08-2003, 12:14 PM

Well - now my computer is up and running again ( ;D ;D) I can post my comments.
It was a great meeting - despite not getting my car to perform at it's best until the Finals :( - but at least I got it sorted.
The track was excellent although I would have liked to have tried the 19T around the mod circuit.
Organisation was very good and facilities excellent.
Nothing else to say - you turn up to race and you accept the rules.
Well done guys - I'll be back (despite not getting home until midnight !!)

sdrcc

26-08-2003, 02:17 PM

ok Bryan, tell me how. Big motor? big pinion? both?

I had a 12t D5, geared about 5.5 and using old 3000's. Too little?

By the way, Sorry George about the computer.
Doh!

26-08-2003, 02:58 PM

Dom, what ESC were you using, as I ran a D5 flatliner with a similar ratio and it was keeping up with the rest ;D

26-08-2003, 05:06 PM

About the same as me then Dom D5 12x1, ratio is almost spot on and i'm using 3300's instead of 3000's and 80amp chip on program3 on a lrp V7.1.. oh now giving all my secrets away :o

sdrcc

26-08-2003, 05:14 PM

then it's just tired old batteries.

Hmm.

Will probably leave it till close season and make an investment.... ;)

Shavey01

26-08-2003, 06:32 PM

I had a great day and the weather certinly helped. The speed of Dean Osbon in 19turn was phenominal ididn't realise the cars could go that quick. The day was topped of great for me by qualifying for my first "A" final other than club meetings. Roll on next year infact going to Carlisle aswell lets hoope the weather is just as good.

Mark Nicholson

27-08-2003, 05:31 PM

I would just like to say a biggggg well done to Dan Dixon, who took top junior....age 11! :) well done!

27-08-2003, 09:05 PM

going off topic, but you should enjoy carlisle alot Dave. Its a very nice track, pretty fast and flowing with a superb section at the end of the straight. Allthough you wont get to enjoy that as much at the reverse track meeting. When you first see it you think what a mickey mouse small track but it is class ;D