M18 in the UK

[nitro-head]

hi gusy

i don't know if you micro dudes already know, but i know where you can get the M18 in the UK.

it aint no back of the lorry stuff

from a proper online model store thing

PM me if you want to know.

btw, it is 110

[chrislee]

just seen one for less :P and also in stock

[Dynamite Arrows]

Apex Models are selling them at £ :o :o, don't know if any are in stock but the pre-ordered kits have been delivered already.

<price removed>

[KRob]

Just built one yesterday, the transmission is REALLY free.
The bearings don't come packed with grease so are easy to prep and everything fits really well.
It even has droop screws!!

[dominic evola]

Well that shows it's true racing pedigree :).

[John Davie]

It will be interesting to see one go, fancied getting a car like these since they came out, may just get one now.

[Dynamite Arrows]

Racing mine tonight for first time against Micro RS4's so fingers crossed. Hopefully the kit tyres grip ok on carpet.

[damo]

soften them prior to going....wd40 is always a fave....or use some addative if you have any....will soften them and help grip... ;D

mind you they might destroy themselves... :o

[Garry]

WHats the body that comes with them?

[Garry]

Just seen on the other thread, is it a Proline Ferrari, or an Xray version?

[dominic evola]

they will look nice.

[Dynamite Arrows]

They come with the Proline 360 Modena, but other shells are on their way. I ended up running with the Team Orion Foam rear tyres but had too much understeer with the kit fronts, it's at least on a par with the HPI Micro down the straight but it has all the aces in the infield :D

[Garry]

Thanks Peter, I might have to sell my Mini-Z and get an M18.

Oh Santa, I know what I want for Christmas.......

;)

[dominic evola]

It's good to hear there are good comments about coz I am ordering mine soon :).

[David Studd]

do they run with 5 cells or 6.
and has anybody tried the power pack.

[dominic evola]

I believe that they are supposed to run both....................

5 cells straight down one side in a side by side type stick.........

And a saddle pack format..............

Regards

DEMON

[David Studd]

cheers

David.

[dominic evola]

No prob!

[Dynamite Arrows]

It is possible to fit a 7.2v stick pack in the standard chassis, but the cells need to be made up neatly without end mouldings. This layout has been adapted worldwide for the time being, and I think it should be better than either of the other layouts. Have a look at the gallery at www.one18th.com for pics of the cells in the car or I will be happy to send pics via e-mail if anyones interested.

I ran my car for the second time on Thursday and it is brilliant. The handling is very reminiscent of the TTech Predator, the car loves to be pushed to the absolute limit, always on the edge! The rear suspension and shaft drive means it runs rings round the HPI Micro RS4, it can be pushed much harder in and out of the corners.

[dominic evola]

That site is really cool....................

[dominic evola]

But I don't think that it is possble to get a 7.2v pack in there :-!

[Dynamite Arrows]

Ok here's an early pic of my chassis to show -

The pack is six cells made up as per a normal size Tamiya

Not sure how to post pics directly, but this is a link to One18th's site with a pic of my own car, just before it was finished.

http://www.one18th.com/showtoy.php?id=1406

If you look at any of the other M18 cars in the One 18th Gallery, all the six cell racers are adapting the layout. There are better pics that clearly show six cells on there.

In answer to the other question, I have not tried the Xray electric pack, but it must be good value for money, just that you get a 5 cell pack not a 6 cell.

[dominic evola]

That's very nice :)!

[David Studd]

looks pretty neat.what size motor is it.

[dominic evola]

It looks like a pretty standard one to me.....................unless the badge is on the underside.

[RayS]

Looks like the 45 turn HPI modified with replaceable brushes.

[Dynamite Arrows]

Yes it's the HPI Modified 45T, this was only used to try and get the radio all flat on the chassis. In my experience the std. 180 can do just as many laps but was about 1mm longer or less! (Yes, space is that tight) I still had to put a groove in the receiver case to clear the end of the motor shaft!!! Taking the receiver out of it's case and heat shrinking would make more space or finding a smaller receiver.... :-

[redlinezak]

have just built my m18 and have a few questions for you micro experts?
1. On the front lower steering link (the one linking the two hubs if i dont wind the front downstops in to raise the chassis this linkage touches the chassis is this normal and do you just increase ride height as necessary with the downstop screws therefore limiting upward travel of the suspension or have i built it wrong??
2. when buying a speedo for it (i am using a novak atom at the moment but slightly large) what do i need to look out for with regards to turn limit ( i hope to order either a big block when available or an orion modified (currently using an orion core mod micro motor)
3. Is a 2/3af cell the correct one to use as my model shop have only supplied a 6 cell 270mah nicad pack which i dont think will give me the run time and i have found a good supplier of these 2/3af cells.
4. Where can i get glue for building packs up with (i think called shoe goo) and also where do i get battery bones for these cells )

Please Pm with any shops i can contact and thanks in advance for reading this.

Nathan

[Dynamite Arrows]

As it's been said before on here, I'm no expert but I do like running Micros so I'll have a go at these.

You seem to be a bit confused with the downstop screws, basically if it's built exactly as per the instructions using the downstop screws then the bar will not hit the chassis. The thing is by winding the downstop screws IN you are LOWERING the car, not raising it. This limits the downward travel and has no effect on the upward travel at all.

Don't know much about the micro speedos as I'm running a no limit 1/10 in mine, I do know that Xray are bringing their own big bore speedo out.

2/3A or 2/3AF is the standard cell size used and the one that is most likely to be accepted once rules are drawn up for this class. I've found that the 1000mah - 1200mah batteries last for at least two 5 min races on a fairly small track but this is using a 180 size motor.

hope this helps

[redlinezak]

apologies i meant downward travel. In the instructions it makes no mention of where to set the downstops on the fron t and with mine screwed out(ie no effect at all the bar touches the chassis just wondering if this is normal ?

[Dynamite Arrows]

It's not that clear, but it does - not as a measurement as such, on page 17 of the instuctions, under 'Tech Tip Adjustable Downstops' at the bottom of this column it shows the downstop screws being fitted and underneath is a picture of the arms with the downstops in place, it shows that both should be set equal and that they protrude below the arm and not above, on mine they protrude by about 1mm, and the steering bar clears, just!

[Charles King]

i know what you mean i had the same problem when i built a mates m18.
the front upper wishbone downstop hole needs to be filled by a plastic "downstop pin" or if you used adjustable downstop "Thread Set Screw" you need to screw it down and lower the chassis.

there is almost no clearance in the arm but you have to remember the arm will only move up with the suspension not down!

Hope this helps!

[Barry_Hughes]

I ran my car for the second time on Thursday and it is brilliant. The handling is very reminiscent of the TTech Predator, the car loves to be pushed to the absolute limit, always on the edge! The rear suspension and shaft drive means it runs rings round the HPI Micro RS4, it can be pushed much harder in and out of the corners.




Well we have both M18's & RS4's at our meetings, M18 quicker by 3 laps first time out - reason foam tyres against rubber. RS4 wth foams next meeting FTQ & 2nd place in qualifying. The foams make all the difference. And yes the drivers are of equal ability, if anything the M18 drivers is slightly better!

[Dynamite Arrows]

I beat the 1/10 drivers once again at our track last night with the M18 and I can't do that with the RS4. I think the corners must be fairly open for the RS4's to keep up with the M18's, or there's less grip on your carpet compared to ours. We've found that for an RS4 to keep up with an M18 it almost has to be driven on two wheels round all the corners, and that's with the RS4 driver driving out of his skin and the M18 driver relaxed driving at 90% not 100%. It does depend on set up, & radio equipment but the RS4 just seems too top heavy - are the RS4 drivers running all the equipment on the deck? It's difficult to tell what the reason is without being there, I would love to come and see this RS4 phenomenon or race myself, but I think you're about 200 miles to far away!

We all run foam tyres on the rear of both the cars, I guess it MUST be good driving, but we find the HPI is really hard to push (especially on tight bends), the M18's so low, it's so difficult to grip roll and makes the driver's job much easier. In six meetings of the three M18's running, I've seen one grip roll due to running too grippy foam front tyres.

See, I did go down that road I couldn't resist it!!! I just think this car is absolutely fantastic - straight out of the box - no silly hop ups it's great!

On another point, this comparisson aside - How do you encourage people to race Micro cars rather than 1/10 or to start racing with Micros?

We have about 10 to 15 1/10 drivers each week, but only 5-6 Micros at present. They like to look at their times but don't realise the Micro drivers are equaling and since December beating them by 1-2 laps!

I'd be interested in how to get more drivers into the Micro class, any ideas?

[lewist]

if you know what to do with the hpi you can make it handle very nicely!

i am running mine in rear wheel drive only with some foams, 6 cells and standard motor, and i was beating the M18s last nite, one guy had the stock type motor with replacable brushess (not totaly sure, the guy was visiting from germany and i wasn't totaly sure what motor he said it was).

just as fast in a straight line and i had mine handling much better through the tight bits!.. the only problem i have is the back end poping on the tight corners when i put the power down, need some less grippy foams i think

[Dynamite Arrows]

I've never tried it RWD, it should be faster in a straight line, but the car was designed to be four wheel drive not two, I wouldn't call taking the belt out setting the car up. Do you run the front driveshafts, do you have the front diff in place but not driven? If the front driveshafts are in place then this will be causing drag? If the front diff and driveshafts are taken out won't the front end be a bit light? There are no Micro results or pics on the High Wycombe website. I'd like to see how consistant the lap times are of the RWD and the M18's. Do you have any pics of the chassis? If the car works as well as you say I don't understand why all the Micro drivers aren't racing the ready to run Mini R Subaru Impreza as that is essentially what the car is - a rear wheel drive RS4 clone. Any pics?

[Dynamite Arrows]

Well we have both M18's & RS4's at our meetings, M18 quicker by 3 laps first time out - reason foam tyres against rubber. RS4 wth foams next meeting FTQ & 2nd place in qualifying. The foams make all the difference. And yes the drivers are of equal ability, if anything the M18 drivers is slightly better

- I missed the point of this entirely excuse the pun. At one time I wanted to ban foam tyres at our club as I felt like giving up driving on the rubber tyres against them. Way before the M18 came out we discovered foam tyres were worth 3 more laps. We had to allow them, as Mario Hudy has said they do pull more amps than the rubber tyres and can get the motors hot, but our cars are running ok and surviving.

Are you saying that the RS4 still beat the M18 with them both on foams?

[Barry_Hughes]

Hi Peter,
Yep both were on foams.
I must admit that I am running an ARM chassis on the HPI, which allows everything to mounted on the lower deck, the weight distribution is excellent as well with this chassis. We have found that the HPI's seem to have punch than the M18's, all are running 7.2V packs.

As for encouraging drivers we have about 15 drivers with cars, getting them all together is the biggest problem but numbers are starting to increase.
We run the micro's in a small hall on alternate Wednesdays, Touring cars are un on alternate Sunday's on our purpose built outdoor track.

In the Summer we will run the Micro's on a shorter layout at the outdoor track, so we should get even more interest

[Dynamite Arrows]

Thanks Barry, the RS4 is still a good car and I've not raced one with the low radio, we've all still got them so we'll have to have a go at making some chassis for them, I'm sure it will improve the car no end.

We race 1/10 Touring Cars with stock motors and Micros weekly indoors, I think the halls slightly bigger than yours, but not much. We have 15 tourers or more racing regularly and people turn up on the night that we've never seen before, people think the 1/10 are great, but don't realise that the Micro's are cheaper - we only run two batteries a night plus they are cheaper to maintain. I always see it like this, they're a lot more fun because compared to 1/10, it's like having a much wider track, with more scope to race on different lines - three cars into a corner at once - great fun!

Thanks for your help - you've made me re-think about the RS4!

Running them outside is great, we ran four cars around the full size Snetterton track and they were great and lasted for about 25 mins - and they weren't as slow as some people thought. They should be great round your outdoor track from the pictures I've seen.

[Mark Stiles]

if you know what to do with the hpi you can make it handle very nicely!

i am running mine in rear wheel drive only with some foams, 6 cells and standard motor, and i was beating the M18s last nite, one guy had the stock type motor with replacable brushess (not totaly sure, the guy was visiting from germany and i wasn't totaly sure what motor he said it was).

just as fast in a straight line and i had mine handling much better through the tight bits!.. the only problem i have is the back end poping on the tight corners when i put the power down, need some less grippy foams i think


Lewis,

I noticed your tyres were quite rough (fresh off the truer?!). It might make the car smoother if you sanded them smooth and rounded the corners? ???

[lewist]

yo mark... i did.. made very little difference.. it was ok for the first couple of minutes then started to pop again.. got to try some 812s

Peter.. there should be some results soon
as for the font end, i took the drive shafts, diff and belt out so the front wheels free wheeled totaly!

the track that we race on is pritty large for the micros!

i can pull 34 laps with my tourer and 28 laps with my micro!

this m18 i was racing against was well tricked out tooo!!
he had a carbon fibre chassis, and top deck as well as a few other bits!

i am sure that the m18 is a faster car, but from the evidence i have seen, the micro can be just as fast..

i think less back end grip will stop it poping! (it doesn't pop on rubber but understeers too much!!)

[PAULMATHER]

Does anybody know when the tune up parts are goin to become available for the M18??

Or if they already are can you PM the details?

thanks

[Dynamite Arrows]

As far as I know the 42T spur gear and the other parts such as the chassis and oil filled dampers are all in production at the moment, but with no release date.

Thanks for the info Lewis, I look forward to seeing some results, do you run stock motors in the tourer? What is a normal lap time, we do around 10 seconds a lap, with about 35 laps in both Micro and touring (stock) . I think our corners are now a bit tight for 1/10 , but against the other 1/10 drivers, I can go 1-2 laps clear with the Xray. If I run my M18 it is very competitive against my P2K powered TC3's times, crazy I know but that's how our times come out - they are on www.stocksbridgercc.co.uk . I know the TC3 should be laps up , but we can't take the corners as fast as the M18, ad they must be similar down the straight. With the standard HPI Micro RS4 we used to be 2 laps down, 1 lap down at best, but the M18 is such a good car it's bucked the trend.

[Mark Stiles]

Lap times at high wycombe are around 10 secs (apart from 1/12th circuit, which people do nearer 8 secs with!). The corners are very tight for a touring car, so the 1/18ths make it all up in the bends. The 1/12ths make up time everywhere!

[Dynamite Arrows]

How many corners do your tracks at High Wycombe typically have? I can only see the figure of eight track, with two large corners. I can see the space youre working with, is the banked corner always in place at one end of the track? Our tracks usually have about seven bends, the only reason I'm asking all this is that I'm beginning to see that if there are less corners and/or they are of a wider arc then I can see exactly why a rear wheel drive Micro RS4 would work, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't produce the same lap times as a 4WD around our track. It will be fantastic on straights and around long sweeping bends, where you can set the car up for such large loops (like on the figure of eight) with hardly any steering. Do you have hairpin bends?.
I've seen the total laps on the High Wycombe website, so I can get an average lap by dividing the total time by total laps.

[Mark Stiles]

Go to the high wycombe website and click on circuits, to see all the layouts we use (there are a couple of new ones to be added).

The banked corner was removed a couple of years ago due to the high maintainance costs and health and safety (in case someone tripped on it and fell!). Its just a flat corner now. We also have different carpet to that seen in the photos; its blue now!

[Dynamite Arrows]

Ok I give in!, I wish all the clubs could be in a 25 mile radius, then I could come down and race!, so am I right in thinking that for January/ February, you are currently running the 'Le Peace Grande circuit' - there's plenty of bends! Don't know how on earth a rwd can get the traction out of the corners, there must be a lot of entry speed to get through, which as you said is where Micro's gain compared to 1/10. Yes it's doing my head in !! But I'm not travelling 200+ miles to see, I don't think Xray would be pleased if they knew this was happening! Maybe I will strip my RS4 down and try it.

How do you attach the front wheels Lewis, if you dont run the driveshafts?, do you just put a nut on the inside of the wheel hub. I want the full spec so I can do a back to back test. Please tell me the motor, battery, battery configuration, radio layout, pinion gear, esc servo etc etc etc Is all the radio on the deck? It's the only way I will settle this in my head without travelling to High Wycombe and staying in a Travel Inn overnight! If it does , I'll have to take the Xray back to the set-up board and alter toe in F & R, there's no way it should be beaten like for like.

[lewist]

we are running a new circuit now, the last one which the lap times came from was the mount tse tund raceway.. have a look.. pritty tight with a nice bit in the middle..

my touring car is an Schumacher SST 99 running a monster stock pro, 3300, its much much much faster down the straights, and infact is faster through the corners too!!.. nobby i got a sub 9 second lap with my TC.. i think it was 8.7 or 8.8 seconds so i am almost as fast as the 12th circuit!! wouldn't last 8 minutes though!! i am on the verge of dumping on 3000!

as for my rs4, i took the ends off the driveshafts (its the bit that sits in the bearings, then screwed the wheel to that.
i am running the kit motor, the team orion 1100 6 cell pack charged at 2 amps. i am running UFRA se mediums on the rear and front with the front trued to half width. i trued them to the same diameter as the rubber tyres and tuned them with super glue.
i have got a micro reciever and an Mtronics sport RV all on the top deck.. its standard other than that.. i am running it in 140 mm wheel base with the dodge viper shell!

the M18s i have raced agaist have had 5 cells, the 280 bb stock motor.. ithink that is what he said it was. one guy inparticular had a custom carbon fibre chassis (he makes them!) and top deck.

the M18 handled better, there is no doubt about that.. more stable, more planted. i think on a smaller track they may win but on the wycombe circuit they are pritty even!

hope that helps.. i will fish out some pictures...

o btw i am not running suspention on the front on one side at the moment either.. i snapped the bottom pin bit off, so i just put a screw in and tightened it up!

[Dynamite Arrows]

Ah, it's the five cells in the Xray! But he had a big bore motor?
I will still try the HPI in RWD.
It's strange, but does anyone else run six cells in the M18, I know Xray want us all to run five cells, but seeing as six fit straight in, in a stick pack. I know they run six in the Xray at Coastal Model Car Club, I've nevr seen an Xray run on five cells. I will adapt the front wheels to run somehow, my car is 140mm wheelbase, and I do have the option of a Viper shell, it's got the RX-7 at the moment - I'll not bother with the Beetle , not rear wheel drive anyhow! I know the 1/12 cars are extremely fast as are the Tamiya F-103's. I'll try it Thanks for all the help - us Xray drivers are quite passionate about the M18 though. But from what you've said and Barry the RS4's not ready for the scrapheap just yet. I guess if the balance is sorted then it should be good! 8)