World Championship 2004 [Archive]

Jim Spencer

04-12-2003, 09:44 AM

Hi

Your going to love this one...

Don't throw the bricks my way, just the messenger boy..

Bricks should be addressed to - Mr. Grant, IFMAR, Australia...

IFMAR World Championship 2004.
Full Throttle Speedway, Kissimmee,
Florida, U.S.A.
Saturday, October 23, (1/12th event over 3 days)

Then there is a day off, before the TC's start on the Wedneday for 4 more days.

So outdoors on Tarmac it is then ...

It's the weekend following the first 1/12 National of the 2004/5 season, so that's ok, but the TC's clash with the BRCA AGM so doub't many commitee members will be going!

Anybody wanting a place speak to Chris Hardisty.

Entry fee should be around $150.
EFRA licence's required.

Jim

KRob

04-12-2003, 08:05 PM

How about you Jim?
I heard you were up for it when it might have been in Vegas, what about sunny Florida?
(provided they don't get the same weather as the off-road boys - never had to use wets on a 12th before)

I really fancy going, stay for the whole week, there is nothing like being at a Worlds!!

Martin P

04-12-2003, 09:01 PM

Why is the entry price sooooo high???
Is that the normal enry price??

MattW

04-12-2003, 09:03 PM

Must admit Keith, it would be sweeeeet.

PDW

04-12-2003, 09:51 PM

Martin,

Entry fee is set by IFMAR, it is the same for all Electric WC events. It includes a banquet ticket for drivers as well as all the facilities required. This generates $22,500 if there is a full entry, nearer 1/2 that for a 1/12th IFMAR event - which is not nearly enough to lay on a meeting of this class. I'm not justifying it, merely explaining it. HTH. :)

Peter

PDW

04-12-2003, 09:54 PM

Oh, and this one's on tarmac; in the heat. Please bear in mind that you will also need to buy (the right) tyres when you are there, plus whatever additive is working on that track, and be prepared to fund all that for about 9 rounds of qualifying and finals, and motors ......

$150 is only part of the real 'entry' fee!! But you will never, ever experience racing like it - just being there is worth the price if you have never done it before. :)

Jim Spencer

05-12-2003, 12:47 PM

Keith

What the weekend before the BRCA AGM! my house looks like an explosion in a paper factory by then, not a hope I'm afraid.
Though to be honest not really interested in playing on Tarmac, been there done that, IMHO this is just IFMAR coming up with a valid reason to kill our class off, as I think the entry's going to be very thin once again, either in numbers or quality or both.
Classic example of 'if it hasn't got an I.C. engine in it we dont give a toss' from one or two people in IFMAR i'm afraid (stress this is my personal opinion)

Jim

Mark Stiles

05-12-2003, 01:05 PM

1/12th circuit cars are designed to run on carpet, so that is what they should be raced on. If they were regularly raced on tarmac in this country, wouldn't there be rubber tyres available by now? ???

PDW

05-12-2003, 01:29 PM

Mark, I do not agree with you. 1/12th cars were always designed to run on tarmac, right from the very first Associated RC12 of the '70s. In the UK, we started on polished wood floors using UK-made cars like 'Lectricar and Mardave.

Later, along came the Lexan chassis from Phantom and Schumacher. It was not until 1982, and the Euros at Watford, that carpet came to this country. We then started using the RC12, Jomac Lightening and Delta cars - that had been designed for tarmac. Then came other similar cars from the UK like the Demon and Alpha Track.

It so happens that the high-grip tarmac chassis design suits high-grip carpet too. Our problem is not simply with the weather, it is that our tarmac is not as hot and grippy as the US version. In states like California and Florida they race outdoors, but in the Eastern States they race carpet indoors. Each IFMAR Block can choose the surface they race on - ROAR choose tarmac for 2004, they have chosen carpet in the past.

Please see Jim's post for my personal opinion too - been there, seen that done it and didn't like it. On Jim's other note about IFMAR focus, he has a point!!

glyn ward

05-12-2003, 10:29 PM

kissimee is great but not in oct we had rain for 4 days this year at off road worlds so book some extra days may take 2weeks to run meeting.

Rick Hohwart

05-12-2003, 11:05 PM

It will rain...right at the end of Hurricane season...but keep in mind it rains EVERY day in the summer months.

Carpet came long after the first 1/12 cars. Today's 1/12 cars do have an indoor bias when it comes to their design, but the class was originally intended for asphalt.

However I would prefer to race 1/12 on carpet but economics prevail. The 1/12 class will pretty much have to do what the 1/10 class does unfortunately. In this case the choice is to run with touring cars outside or not run at all.

I don't think a 1/12 Worlds would be able to exist all by itself.

But the best part about this event is...

The host track, when awarded the event, had never even run a race.

PDW

06-12-2003, 04:46 PM

Rick, thank you for your comments, they are very interesting. Will you be racing in the 1/12th Worlds as practice for the Touring Car event?, or are you racing in the 1/12th Worlds to support 1/12th?

The Cleveland event exists all by itself, I do wonder why it is not used as a World's event anyway!

Peter

rice98w

06-12-2003, 04:49 PM

i'd never race 12th on tarmac.... im sorry but it just doesnt appeal!

the word on the street a few months back said it would be las vagas, on carpet, with odourless adative, now what an event that would have been! :o

from an observation point of view, i reckon jim is spot on. if it dont have a gas engine it can sw*vel.

hmmmm a 12th nitro car? anyone? anyone? ;D ;D ;D

btw pete you have a PM (just incase you forgot to check them again! lol)

rice98w

06-12-2003, 04:51 PM

cleveland sounds like one of those events that are the absloule mutts nutts! ones im going to HAVE to do are

* cleveland
*'birds
*euros.

and im definately doing the euros in austria.... so thats 1 down! ;D

Rick Hohwart

06-12-2003, 05:06 PM

PDW - I will likely race both because the venue is close and I have not raced 1/12 in a long time. So for me to support 1/12 and to have fun. I doubt the practice time will help much for 1/10.

Actually1/12 at Cleveland exists because of touring cars. The event went on for a couple of years being billed as the "last" Cleveland event. The only reason it exists today is the fact they were able to add touring cars to the program and bring the number of entries back up to acceptable (and profitable) levels.

Jim Spencer

06-12-2003, 05:49 PM

Rick & Pete

I think the 1/12 Worlds has become a bit chicken and egg, keep on coming up with questionable venue's / surfaces and the entry's thin, therefore we keep on getting questionable venue's etc
To illustrate this i'll relate what happened at the EFRA AGM when it came round to discussing places required :-
In the bar the previous night when we though it was Vegas on carpet a casual discussion revealed that EFRA would probably have been close to requesting its full allocation of 40 places. In the meeting we're told Florida, outdoors (and that was only probably as the venue at that stage wasn't confirmed) total number of places requested = 9.

The racers are voting with their feet, which is a real shame as 1/12 is going through a serious rise in popularity presently, I think that the racers have tried the 'political' method of getting IFMAR to show some interest in this class, perhaps its time the interested trade members used some of their clout to get this sorted out a little more?

Jim

DA_cookie_monstA

06-12-2003, 05:54 PM

This may sound a little SIMPLE, but, couldn't they just have a tarmac and a carpet world champs, or, if there is enough people, why not have a non-IFMAR (heaven forbid) sanctioned world champ race at a decent venue?

rice98w

06-12-2003, 05:57 PM

a good idea DCM, hold it at chesterfield! ;D

PDW

06-12-2003, 06:00 PM

Jim - intersting background, thanks. I'd have been tempted to try Vegas on carpet, but Florida on tarmac is not worth it for me.

DCM - there is not enough support for two Worlds in any class, let alone 1/12th. As per my previous post, I agree that using an existing venue (Cleveland, Euros) to double as a Worlds is possible. Methinks that a non-IFMAR event is not too many years away!

gbevens

06-12-2003, 11:12 PM

Hi all,

Rick, what's the feeling in the US about racing on carpet, is it preferred to racing on asphalt? It seems from Jim's post that Europe wants carpet, I know which I'd prefer! Why do we not just address several bricks to Mr Grant (full throwing details available from Jim) to get the BRCA rule 15.4 copied

15.4 All meetings to be held indoors on carpet.

As far as touring cars go, they run well on carpet, who can forget 98! That meeting had to be run indoors, it does rain a LOT in the UK but I can't remember a single complaint about it.

Gareth

mark barord

07-12-2003, 10:10 AM

Surely the T.C worlds and the 1/12th worlds do not have to be held on the same track? It can not be too difficult to find a large hall suitable for the 1/12th that is within a sensible traveling distance of a good tarmac track ie West London and Watford!
Carpet is best for 1/12th and outdoors is best for T.C.
Jim am I correct in thinking that the on track electric worlds are coming to Europe in 2006?

Oliver

08-12-2003, 12:46 PM

Great idea Mark... (trying to sound surprised even thou we've talked about it before!)

Am i right in thinking that up until the 2000 Worlds (at Yatabe) the rules were that the event had to run on carpet (remember reading Mike Haswells report of Worlds when he said that those should have been held on carpet....)

As for the elec track worlds - i remember reading something about that in the EFRA agm minutes (www.efra.se) - Austria is top runner at moment if my memory serves me....

Why can't we have it here in the UK again... oh yeah, the weather...

OLI

Dave Treacy

08-12-2003, 04:05 PM

Of course, if we really wanted to... we could run on Milton Keynes' indoor and outdoor tracks - a 5 minute walk apart 8)

Shamless plug for MKRCTC - 2 tracks - best of both worlds ;D ;D ;D

PDW

08-12-2003, 04:40 PM

Oliver, there has not been to my knowledge an IFMAR rule that said what surface a track whould be. For many years 1/12th was on carpet, but in 1996 ROAR held the event at Revelation Raceway - on tarmac. There was a lot of 'shock', but the rules have never prevented tarmac being used.

It can be seen from the posts here that 1/12th cannot support an event on its own. Cleveland exists because of Touring Cars (thanks Rick for the info) and the same goes for lots of other events right down to club level. Left to 1/12th, we couldn't afford the club nights at Chesterfield, Ashby, Milton Keynes, etc.

If you want 1/12th to be big enough to support a Worlds, it is going to have to be far more accessible to 'the man in the street' - cars in shops, ready supply of tyres and bodies, cars that look like current Sports/GT, etc. In the meantime, we have to make the best of our current status.

mark barord

08-12-2003, 06:11 PM

I accept that 1/12th will never be a stand alone event but I don't see why it has to happen on the same track as the 1/10 tourers use.
If the 1/12th worlds was held on tarmac in Europe I think that you would end up with an entry of about 40. Put it on carpet and you would be looking at nearly 100. (working on the basis that the last few 1/12th Euro's have had an entry of about 65 and then adding some Americans and Japanese.)

Dave Treacy

08-12-2003, 06:13 PM

I think it's all down to marketing / distribution and exposure.
Many of us will recall that long before TC's came into existance this hobby was sustained (on road) by 1/12th, then came Pro-10...then TC

Mark Stiles

08-12-2003, 08:03 PM

Of course, if we really wanted to... we could run on Milton Keynes' indoor and outdoor tracks - a 5 minute walk apart 8)

Shamless plug for MKRCTC - 2 tracks - best of both worlds ;D ;D ;D

Great idea dave! So long as racers don't mind the tight confines of the mk pitting area! (we're pushed for space with 40 drivers, let alone 100!)

I think events such as the worlds need to be held in places that are accessible for racers. The UK is small in comparison to the US, so the racers here are situated in a more concentrated area. Somewhere like germany/france would be ideal because it would be within reasonable travelling distance for racers in europe (considering this is the world championship!). If its held in florida, then even californians have to travel across a continent to race at a meeting in their own country!

If it were held in western europe, then it would just be the japs/yanks that have to travel really significant distances.

Its also important that high profile events such as this are held in reasonably highly populated areas, in order to gain interest in our hobby. In october, I raced at the 1/12th stockcar worlds at RAF cosford. The venue was great, and the facilities suberb. The only problem was that the only people who knew the event was on were the visitors to the RAF museum! If the meeting was held somewhere like london or birmingham, then I think it would have attracted a bit more attention.

Mark Stiles

08-12-2003, 08:06 PM

If you want 1/12th to be big enough to support a Worlds, it is going to have to be far more accessible to 'the man in the street' - cars in shops, ready supply of tyres and bodies, cars that look like current Sports/GT, etc. In the meantime, we have to make the best of our current status.

I think the shells should be made to look more like the protoform porsche gt1 pro 10 bodyshell (ie with separate wings instead of ones that are moulded into the shell). Look on the cml website and you'll se what I mean. :)

Russ

08-12-2003, 08:40 PM

rice98w

08-12-2003, 08:47 PM

LOL... i think it was! :D

If it were held in western europe, then it would JUST be the japs/yanks that have to travel really significant distances.

that made me chuckle, seeing as their where the majority of racers are from!

i think it was the ISTCC that was held at alexandra palace in london... what a superb venue that must have been.... the possibilty for another?

Mark Stiles

08-12-2003, 09:05 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to get my tin opener out! he he!

If the worlds were held in europe on carpet (as a separate event to the tc worlds), I think you'd get more racers, because the japs and yanks are going to travel (as they race on carpet and tarmac). Judging by the way this thread has gone so far, a lot of UK drivers aren't keen on tarmac, and I'm sure its the same for the rest of europe.

PDW

09-12-2003, 10:48 AM

Oh yes, and it is huge!! Take a look at the thread on the Touring Car area about the new Skoda from Losi. The sad fact of the matter is that Touring Car is huge because people relate to the cars in the shops. I am not sure how that shell painted that colour looks like a Skoda!!

1/12th is different. I don't think it likely that manufacturers could make a return on investment in new moulds for GT3, Audi R8 or any other GT/Le Mans shell. However, why should that stop 1/12th having a rule that the shell must be in the colour and design of an original car? Let's face it, who would ever know that a Trinity Speed 8 was not an Audi R8 if it were done up in Audi colours. Making sticker sets is way cheaper than making shells! Having cars on the track that look like current GTs would make a real relationship with our public.

Oh, look, loads of wriggly things on the floor - how did that happen!! ;)

PDW

09-12-2003, 10:52 AM

Note to idioit posting above ......

An Audi R8 is open-cockpit, a Bently Speed 8 is closed - how the hell could one look like the other?? ;D

Note from idiot posting above ......

It isn't, but I hope you get my drift!! ;)

John Davie

09-12-2003, 05:06 PM

Note to idoit above ;):

When Audi first ran the R8 they had both open and closed cockpit cars racing a le-mans for the first year then scrapped the closed cockpit design as the open cockpit design had more rule breaks ie wider rear tyres.

I spend far too much time watching racing on the tv ;D

PDW

09-12-2003, 06:17 PM

Note to both idiots above - one of us should sort out the correct spelling of idiot!! Thanks for the info John, makes me feel sightly less idiotic!! ;)

John Davie

09-12-2003, 06:26 PM

This idiot can not spell or type that well either , motorsport on tv has alot to answer for ;D.

ccoomes

10-12-2003, 07:14 PM

1/12 and its numbers,

Having read all the replies, and LEAVING out the Can of worms, from where I am sitting 1/12 in the UK is up.

For those who are not sure, I am currently the 1/12 qualifications officer. This means I get the entries (And weekends wrong!!!) for the BRCA 1/12 National Championship.

Since starting at the beginnning of last season all I can say is:

The numbers have slowly gone up.

The first race of this season had over 1/3 of new drivers!!!

And about half of those have stayed and are still here, mad men!

The forth coming national at Mold, currently has 66 drivers for both days! the highest in the year so far.

Basically, does anyone think the saying:

'What goes around, comes around'

Spring to mind about 1/12 & TC.

The 1/12 class is also pulling some IC drivers in, and it is also a good winter racing.

Worlds and Euros. In the UK please. The worlds are to be held in the world, somewhere. People will travel to it, and yes the more access to the public the better. Why not the NEC with the Motor Show!!! And the brolly babes :P 8) ;D

Personally, I can hopefully see that 1/12 keeps growing. It is a good clean class, with quality drivers (Honest) and a damn good atmosphere off the track. I just hope it does not get wash away buy the Very Expensive TC's.

I am really p'd off to have missed the worlds in 98, so can we do a replay please in the next few years.

We have a great team in the 1/12 section and the BRCA. Do we have the best in the world? I would like to think so, but I have not had much experince with racing abroad!!!

Look at cleveland, a good meeting with a very good reputation. Why not have a European version?

Anyway I ranting again.

It's the racers with there feet that will decide the classes, we just need to help them towards us!!!

See you next weekend at the 1/12 national!!!

Clive.

Dave Treacy

10-12-2003, 08:42 PM

er, Clive,

see you THIS weekend... 2 days to go... vroom vroom!

Mark Stiles

10-12-2003, 09:20 PM

Didn't know we raced IC cars! ;) ;D

gbevens

11-12-2003, 12:45 AM

i think it was the ISTCC that was held at alexandra palace in london... what a superb venue that must have been.... the possibilty for another?

Matt,

It was South Shields in '98 that was the biggie, 12th, ISTCC and Pro 10, it was without doubt the best meeting I've ever attended and kicked seven shades of you know what out of Ally Pally (which took place the year after) even though Ally Pally is beeter known than Temple Park the racers still came up north for the event, and locals did come in as well (not by the bus load though!).

To make the event in 98 viable the touring car meeting had to happen, the 12th and pro 10 were more support classes, in my oppinion, this is still the case, but tow years down the line it may not be (it was only 3/4 years ago we had 30-40 drivers showing for 12th nationals!)

As far as hosting a worlds goes, if Jim can make the money work, I'm up for it

ccoomes

11-12-2003, 08:22 PM

As Gareth Says,

If a worlds can be supported, I'll be one of the helpers!!!

As long as the beer keeps flowing, i'll be there!!!

Clive.

Russ

20-12-2003, 10:43 PM

I have found the following pictures of the track that the 1/12 worlds are currently planned to be held at;
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=516573
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=516574
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=516577
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=516580
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=564679
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=564682

Or a movie at http://www.alucard.cc/kreidel/fts.wmv (broadband only! Its a BIG file!)

The track is huge :o
its big for a tourer,
it will be no fun at all with a 4 cell 1/12 :( :'( :'(

What does IFMAR think it is playing at >:( ???