Generators

[screamer]

What are the views on the use of portable generators on race days, i can understand the need for there use if camping the night before but the majority of racers use car batterys for chargeing and would like the use of portable generators banned on race days, not only for the noise but to erradicate any causes of interference which can ruin anyones race day.

[MikeS]

Views aren't neccessary Alan, it's whatever the policy of the hosting track is, If they don't allow them, it's not for us to counter that. Likewise if they do, it's not for us to say you can't. If you wish to use a gen then you should always check with the hosting track what their policy is.

[Paul_U]

I was going to start this thread but didn't was to cause any arguments, but seeing as how someone else has started i will add my two pence worth.

On sunday in the first qualifyer and the 1st final (didn't run the in 2nd and 3rd qualifyer) i was getting interference at the top corner on the banking before you come onto the straight, i knew there was two generators at the corner so asked race control if both generators could be turned off for this final, which they did. When they were switched of i had NO hint of interference at all and managed to have 2 trouble free races.

I also know Peter White who was in the same final as me had the same problem on the same corner all day, he tried different crystals and radio gear and neither worked, when the generators what turned off he had no interference and also had trouble free runs.

So my Opinion would be to ban generators from future events,

Paul

[Trevor Akehurst]

Views aren't neccessary
That’s a bit harsh Mike? Alan was only asking for other drivers opinions, and I would have thought if the STCC wanted to make a ruling which controlled the use of generators at its meeting it could. After all it has made unique rules before.

[MikeS]

It wasn't meant to be Trevor really. We can't over-ride a tracks policy and not expect to get a backlash from others no matter which way round it is.

I don't and never have used a generator myself, but if the track allows them, and we say no I am sure we are going to get arguments no matter what, especially with local drivers who have "never had any problems in the past..."

All I said is that if the tracks allow them, then so be it, and if they don't then likewise. However as in Pauls posting, something I wasn't aware of, if there is a problem and it is proven, then I am sure most people would do as asked and shut it down or move it.

I just don't think we need any more rules, a bit of common sense and courtesy generally works and goes down a lot better.

[losixxx]

maynot have been the generators at all, another possible cause could have been someone's tx bleeding its signal in your heat who wasnt in your final. this is a comman cause of interference which people dont look at

[Paul_U]

maynot have been the generators at all, another possible cause could have been someone's tx bleeding its signal in your heat who wasnt in your final. this is a comman cause of interference which people dont look at

This could not be the case as i had it in the first qualifyer, and in the 1st and final the only other person who was in the same qualifying as me in the final was using a different transmitter to what he had in qualifying as he was having the same problem.

As i said in the first post, when the generators where switched of it stopped the end to my problems, couldn't really be a coincidence as this happened to a number of people

Paul

[jo90]

I had interference on that corner too, was like my car was stalling until it got about 2-4 metres down the straight, then started going again.

I noticed one guy had placed his generator way up the hill at the back of the tents and away from the track, at least this guy had his head screwed on and realised the damage they can do regards interfering with a car - shame not every driver is so curtious !!!

[Terry]

I think as Mike says we have enough rules already and it's not always easy to find the cause of radio interference. Nobody wants anyone to suffer from interference and when you have problems it's easy to blame something or someone else! As a race director you try to sort out any problems and be diplomatic at the same time. I had to go and ask nicely for the two generators on the hill to be turned off and their owners did agree without any fuss as they appreciated what it's like to have interference, we all have problems at some time after all. For one driver it made no difference and for another his problem seemed to have gone away, but which generator was the culprit or indeed if it was the generators at all is still unknown! At our club meetings we very rarely have problems and if we do it usually turns out to be self inflicted or another persons radio that's the cause. But what we don't have at club meetings is 100+ drivers plus caravans, tents etc in the field and filling up the paddock behind race control!

If you have a problem let the race director know and see if something can be done about it. As Mike says, a bit of common sense and courtesy generally works and goes down a lot better.

_____________________
Terry Stockham

[jo90]

Terry, to be fair it is more common sense than having to have another rule, and should be a responsibility of the driver to ensure if they have anything that can cause interference as far away from the track as possible. A race director has enough to deal with in a day and to add on to this going round and checking for anything that cause interference wuold make it a total nightmare.

Only happened to me about 7-10 times through the day, so definately something was causing it, and something that might not always have been turned on !!!

[Terry]

Yes John I agree, due to the noise interference and possible radio interference as you say it's common sense to have them as far away from the track and other people as possible.

_____________________
Terry Stockham

[Acer]

As paul has said Peter was getting interferance from the off on sunday at that particular point (top of the hill onto the straight) once passed half distance on the straight no problem.We changed motor's,receivers and transmitters but it was when the generators were turned off,problem gone.
Having the motor home on site I carry a generator but if I run it I stay well back from the track and if at all possible try not to run it on race day(sometime's do when the wife and boy's girlfriend's are with us as they get bored).Perhap's a solution would be to allow them but not within a certain distance of the track.As for needing them for charging for the price you pay for a generator you could buy several descent 12 volt batteries.

[Trevor Akehurst]

Ok no new rules until it’s proven that generators or any other engine running actually causes interference. (How this could ever be done I am not sure, as the experts never seem to be able to agree on this)
However a general request could be placed in the rules and or on the web site.
That generators and the like should not be used close to the track, or positioned where they cause annoyance to others and they are turned of at a reasonable time in the evening.

[MikeS]

Trevor, a very valid point, so I have added something along those lines to the top of the rules page. I trust this will meet with everyones approval.

[Trevor Akehurst]

Couldn’t ask for more thanks Mike

[jo90]

Excellent, im sure no one will disagree.

[gordonkrcc]

hiya guys
nothing to do with me as such but a lot of us use generators in scotland and we never seem to have any probs with radio glitches
one other thing worth thinking about 1\5 scale cars use the same ignition system as a 2 or 4 stoke generator and this is onboard the car so the interferance is as close to the rx as can be and they dont seem to complain ??????

[Mark Christopher]

hiya guys
nothing to do with me as such but a lot of us use generators in scotland and we never seem to have any probs with radio glitches
one other thing worth thinking about 1\5 scale cars use the same ignition system as a 2 or 4 stoke generator and this is onboard the car so the interferance is as close to the rx as can be and they dont seem to complain ??????
who said its the ignition system?
forgive me the the 1/5th cars i have seen dont have a generator in them but just an ignition system
think you will find there is more chance the interferance comes from the generator and not the engine

[Skiddins]

who said its the ignition system?
forgive me the the 1/5th cars i have seen dont have a generator in them but just an ignition system
think you will find there is more chance the interferance comes from the generator and not the engine

I thought it would be the ignition system that can cause the most interference, the spark plug produces exactly what we don't want, sparks, while the generator section involves the rotating magnets and/or coils etc.

I wonder it attaching a tent peg or similar pushed into the ground with some wire attached directly to the gen's chassis would help?

Hmm, I wonder if the extension leads are the problem, acting like aerials?

Skiddins

[col7104]

You could think of the generator section as a big ass 540 size motor that we use? We get interference problems if we don't suppress our motors, so, if these gennies aren't supressed then hey presto.

Hmm, thinking further, generators don't have arcing brushes and comms, which is the source of interference.

Meh, who knows if it's them or not!

[Barry_Hughes]

As one who also suffered some "interfence" in the top corner, I am not sure it was caused by the generators. The people who where running them where asked to turn them off, still had the same stuttering problem.

Last quali changed motor, reciever, crystals put a time in 10th A Mod, still had a bit of the stuttering but not so bad.
Finals changed brushes again, no problems at all.

I still don't know what caused by problems it may have been bleed from some one elses radio, dodgy brushes, gazebo's or vans to close to the track reflecting my signal? who knows.

I think the answer is if you are using a generator try to keep it as far away as possible from the track side, as Debbie did with hers'.
Keep the gazebo's a small distance away from the fencing at the track edge and park any vans end on to reduce the expense of metal that reflects radio waves.

All a bit of common sense that I am sure most racers can understand and hopefully think about when setting up their pit area.

[Skiddins]

You could think of the generator section as a big ass 540 size motor that we use? We get interference problems if we don't suppress our motors, so, if these gennies aren't supressed then hey presto.

Hmm, thinking further, generators don't have arcing brushes and comms, which is the source of interference.

Meh, who knows if it's them or not!


To be allowed to be sold in the EU, all electronic and electrical equipment must be CE approved, and consequently 'must not cause or be affected by RFI' (radio frequency interference). You should find they will all have suppression circuits etc.

Skiddins

[spannersatcx]

An interesting thread, we are racing in TORC and today was the first time we have ever experienced any interference, interestingly todays round was at Bedworth, which as you may know, generators are not allowed, and we weren't the only ones to suffer either.

We have raced at Wrexham, Halifax, Aldershot, Ashby the list goes on where generators were allowed and as I say until today have never experienced interference. Not conclusive proof I know, but it seems there is no conclusive proof against either.

Could it be a combination of different components that may cause the problems, you could liken it to parts for a pc, they are supposed to work in all, but sometimes don't due to incompatabilities. Just a thought, might help, might not!

[col7104]

To be allowed to be sold in the EU, all electronic and electrical equipment must be CE approved, and consequently 'must not cause or be affected by RFI' (radio frequency interference). You should find they will all have suppression circuits etc.

Skiddins


Ok, so who's been importing the dodgy generators then, own up! :D

Personally I think Barry has pretty much summed it up, a combination of all those things mentioned. Just a little consideration on racedays and we should be fine. :)