Cheep Missions ?.

[bob burr]

Noticed that Schumacher have droped the price of the mission big time ?, could they be trying to get rid of old stock ? is a new car about to be released and thats why they dont want the old ones any more ?
A certain model shop told me i could in the shops soon.

[wil]

I think there was a rumour about a possible new car,
Strange, beacsue the mission isn't exactly an old car, and its been very sucessful in stock nationals this year.

maybe some of the schuey team drivers know more.......

[Ian s]

bob - you didnt notice what a team driver with a name that begins with C was running on sunday then!

[glypo]

yes i noticed this - i was worrying that schumacher might be going through a bad time. Dropping the price of the mission and the fireblade ??? just wondering what it all means.

It would be nice though if they are developing new cars and thats the reason.

[DA_cookie_monstA]

Maybe they are not shipping stock right now???

[bob burr]

Yes i was told about a Mr C A driving a new car, also a B team driver was sorry he didnt have one to race.

[DA_cookie_monstA]

Was the mission a stop gap from the axis to keep it competitive whilst they sorted out something better, I mean, it doesn't cost much, in house, to set up a cnc machine to cut a different shape chassis does it, and wola, new car (although most of it is the same!!!).

But to drop the Carbon kit down by £90 rrp is a BIG drop, makes you wonder, especially as they only have a small team at the Euro's too??

[bob burr]

Think Schumachers marketing is all wrong, they always try to keep a new car secret, whats wrong letting the public know you are bringing a new car out ?.
If Fred Smith doesnt know they have got a new car he may buy a TC3 or HPI a week before its released, he is not likely to sell it even if he prefers the new Schumacher.
Even real car manufacturers let the public know at least 6 months in advance that they have a new model on the way, that way people wait and see if they prefer the new one to one from another maker.

[MattW]

Bob, Interesting you should say that. I have just checked back through my details from the 2001 season, and i am fairly sure that the mission prototype first appeared in public aprox 2 months before i got my car, bearing mind i got my car before they were available to the general public.

I know that isn't quite the amount of notice that some manufactures have given, but it's a lot more than others have given.

[bob burr]

Matt, the mission was kept as secret as they could, most testing of the car was done at Bedworth (know that because i tested some of the prototypes) when no one was about.
If you look at the HPI prototype run by Karl Marsden last year, is was open for anyone to look at and even photograph, because of this i know at least 5 bedworth drivers (poss more) waiting for this car and not going out and buying something else.
If they have a new car (which they have) let the public know, we all want to see it (and maybe buy it) dont try to flog us missions at discount, makeing you think they are doing some good.
PS 1 1/2 years notice on the TC3, how many waited for that instead of buying another car.

[MarkB]

Bob - don't ever change, we love you just the way you are ;)

At the January team meeting we were told that Schumacher would not be introducing a replacement car for the 2003 outdoor season. Instead there would be mods and upgrades to the Mission, and sure enough we've had them and the car has gone better as the season goes on.

Mind you after two seasons of set up experience, you tend to know what works and what doesn't ::)

Whilst we weren't "told" there would be a new car coming out, its not exactly a surprise. Haven't seen a prototype yet, and if its faster than the Mission then personally I can't wait!

Seems to me that new car or not, Missions being sold at the new prices are darned good value. The 2003 results speak for themselves.

Certainly Losi are bigger around the areas Helger sponsor drivers - Watford, Essex, Ware etc. Suspect the move of Andy Moore and Ben Cosgrove to X-Ray has reduced their profile in the midlands - exepect of course for Jimmy.

Cheers
MarkB

[bob burr]

Cheers Mark ;D.
I wasnt geting at Schumacher, was a B team driver for 3 years, have raced all of there scale saloons right from there first SST 2000, and before that a Cat 2000 wide tourer.
But to be honest thay have got behind quite a bit lately,might be doing OK in stock but in mod they have lost most of there A team drivers, and its down to Mr Ashton being such a good driver that they still make A finals.
Havent seen the new car but it sounds great, gone is the turnbuckle rear toe in adjustment (at last) and all new wishbones etc, infact from what iv heard its virtually all new parts with very little from the mission.
I hope its great, i really do (may even get one myself).

[dhamblin]

Interesting....

Does that mean it shares some of the parts with the new Menace car?

[gatesy]

I was considering upgrading from my Axis to a Mission, and with the drop in price im virtually set on switching very soon. But should I spend the extra £50 and get the Carbon?

[Ian s]

dhamblin - err no, the Menace is a 4wd nitro off-road truck! I very much doubt if they have any of the same parts.
Also the new car has C hub front suspention and the top wishbone is now just a turnbuckle like a losi or TC3. The parts which look to be interchangeable with the mission is the bumper, rear body mounts and the motor mount but that has had dremeling work done and the diff mounts, the diffs might be but im not sure on that.

Announced today at wlrc BTCC schmacher are releasing a new tourer in prep for winter/next summer....

Announced by Robin Schmacher at drivers briefing

[bob burr]

You saw it here first boys.
Any money in this ?

[Barry_Hughes]

Any Specs or pics yet?
If it is quicker than the Mission then look out ;D

[wil]

Here is a pic of the new car, looks very good.

Schumacher say there is a totally new suspension design as well as revised transmission.

It will make its debut at the european champs in austria this week.

[Bt]

i thought the new mission was supposed to be shaft drive? oh well. the spur gear is in a completely different postion by the looks of it and should make setting the mesh a right pain as the the pinion will be right under the middle of the topdeck and the rear post for the battery strap could get in the way. There is also very little room for electrics at all in the car and no chassis to mount them too as its all been cut away on the near side.

[mark barord]

what the new car will give you is better balance left to right (than the Mission has). There is a big hole in the top deck so you can get at the pinion so that should not be a problem.
I agree about the cut outs on the left hand side, I find sticking speedo's and recievers on to air to be very difficult. It would be much better to have some Carbon Fibre to play with instead!
But overall it looks very good doesn't it?
The c hub suspension should make the car better on large sweeping tracks.

[MattW]

By having the cut-outs on the motor side you make the chassis flex more even side to side.

I haven't seen this version so not sure what the weight distribution is like, but by eye it looks like there is more wieght further out on the motor side.

Mark is right, this type of hub arrangement makes the car much smoother in sweeping corners.

[jason]

Matt,

From what I understand the motor is about 7mm further out than the mission, the front/rear belt is on the left not the right and the cells are furth in towards the centre but can be moved fore and aft and in and out!
Should allow you to balence the car perfectly and gives an extra tuning option.

Jason

[Barry_Hughes]

i thought the new mission was supposed to be shaft drive? oh well. the spur gear is in a completely different postion by the looks of it and should make setting the mesh a right pain as the the pinion will be right under the middle of the topdeck and the rear post for the battery strap could get in the way. There is also very little room for electrics at all in the car and no chassis to mount them too as its all been cut away on the near side.


Oh dear, no pleasing some people is there, do you want a car that works extremely well or not!!

Why use shaft drive, the current Mission is very quick in a straight line using belt drive, as is the RC LAB, X-Ray, Losi etc.

The secret is always being able to use that speed round the corners, the current Mission does have a slight imbalance side to side, but it can be made to balance almost equally with care. This looks to have sorted that out. Looks like more adjustability in the options of the suspension set up which can only be good.

Also looks like a lot of Mission hop ups will fit which again is good when upgrading

[MarkB]

Bob - you were right, and there was no prize. We should discuss modified results over a beer sometime as the National split means I only see 12-turn action at BTCC meetings.

Picture looks interesting (c-hubs!), and I'll watch the development of the protoype with interest. Good luck to the team in the Euros!

Meanwhile there are championships to be won with the current Mission, so we'll keep focussed on that for now ;)

Cheers
MarkB

[gatesy]

It will make its debut at the european champs in austria this week.
why cant an english car makes it debut in england? instead of letting the foreigners see it first!?

[jason]

Mark,

I think we were well focused at the weekend and you have a good car under you for STCC this weekend.

Good luck!

Jason

[Bonny]

anyone noticed how similar those rear wishbones look to the ones on the tc3 uncanny hey

i do believe u that the c hub system works better on the sweeping corners but can anyone explain why ;D

Cheers
Mark Buonaiuto

[Bonny]

also the new mission looks as though it will have option to use next to no castor

now am i right in thinking that it will make the car more stable on low speed corners and hence quicker indoors

[Ian s]

Gatesy - Its the "official" debut at the Euros, i saw it run at the last Bedworth round of the Torc.

[Paul_U]

well if thats how it comes as standard then we will have most of the hopups already in place

Paul

[Bt]

Oh dear, no pleasing some people is there, do you want a car that works extremely well or not!!

Why use shaft drive, the current Mission is very quick in a straight line using belt drive, as is the RC LAB, X-Ray, Losi etc.

The secret is always being able to use that speed round the corners, the current Mission does have a slight imbalance side to side, but it can be made to balance almost equally with care. This looks to have sorted that out. Looks like more adjustability in the options of the suspension set up which can only be good.

Also looks like a lot of Mission hop ups will fit which again is good when upgrading

I'm not disputing the fact that the current mission isnt fast with its belt drive, i've raced against a couple of them and they are quick but so is my pro3, its just someone told me they thought the new mission was supposed to be shaft drive. Obviously not the case so i will have to give them a slap next time i see them.

And i also agree its all about the corners, anyone can go quick in a straight line. But the missions i do race against are nowhere near settled going round corners, they are always fidgeting and on the move. Hopefully this might help fix things. Hopefully they might also of closed up the ends of the gearbox as the amount of back diff pulleys and belts my mate has wrecked is unbelievable.

[bob burr]

Mark do you remember me posting on the old RC Racechat site about 6 months ago, there was talk about the mission chassis being unbalanced, i said i had considered building my own chassis , Motor 8-9mm to left, swap over drive belts, move cells to left, job done.
Could Schumacher be looking on here and do they owe me money ? ;D
Car looks good and should be a big improvement.
Was i right about leting the public know about new cars ? well 3 Bedworth members who were going to buy TC3s are now waiting to see the new car.

[MattW]

The suggestion of a shaft has been about for months. I'm sure it was last year i first heard it!! It's actually printed in RRC this month. There was (as far as i know) never any truth in it.

Bob, I think the "full swap over" chassis had a 12mm shift. I think that was felt to be too much. There comes a point IMHO that you move all the wieght too far out and build yourself a barge ;D I guess 7mm is a good compromise and as it moves the spur it also still allows the cells to move in. We have been running with a 3mm spacer for a while now.

[Barry_Hughes]

Bt
Can't understand why your mate is chewing up drive belts and pulleys, must be a really rough track you use, unless he is using grey belts with a modified, they are only supposed to be used with stock.

As for open diffs, give them to me every time at last most small items go straight through and out the back.

I have had more problems with the build up of cr*p in cars with the back of the diff housing closed.

[Remo]

Picture looks interesting (c-hubs!), and I'll watch the development of the protoype with interest. Good luck to the team in the Euros!


C-Hubs.... Hmmm... does that mean to change caster you need to change the C hubs???

[Tamiya_Racer]

looks really nice i must say, it should make one killer mission. it looks ... tidy, thats what i like about it. its nearly as good as mine. ;) only kidding

is anyone concidering buying one of these babies, id like to see one run up against the old mission and a tc3 sounds sweet.

looking forward to seeing it in action

Tarnj :)

[MattW]

Remo, Yes to change caster you will need to change the caster block/steering yoke/ 'C' block. Same part, different peoples name for it ;D

does any 1 know how much the new car would retail for???

[NumanR]

Will it be on show at the btcc at MK?

[Remo]

Remo, Yes to change caster you will need to change the caster block/steering yoke/ 'C' block. Same part, different peoples name for it ;D


If that is the case isnt that going backwards in design compared with the Mission? .... Just thinking of the cost and time required to change caster when compared with Kwick Klips.... I dont know... cant say I agree to that one change ::) but I am sure someone will give me a perfectly reasonable reason regarding this...

[lewist]

well although this new car may be coming out.. im still going to buy a current carbon mission... at the price they are it would be stupid not to buy one in my opinion!!!!!!!!!!!

[MattW]

Remo, I can see where you are coming from, but i wouldn't call it a step backward. Yes might mean more bits needed, defenetly more time to change. However IMHO the handling benefits outweight these issues

To look at another example that has recently happened, X-Ray have gone C hub adn their can seems more competative now..........

Mark l, your guess is as good as mine ;D bearing in mind i doubt there is a fixed kit spec yet i doubt they know yet.

Other Mark, who knows. It is only a prototype test car at the moment. I doubt you would see it "on show" until it is finished.

[NOKIA]

I guess in a way loads of people are disappointed that the new car is not a shaft drive :( I'm sure that "the white coat" men at schumacher have been very thorough in their design considderations and still feel that belts are better ;D. I can bet a bottom dollar had the new car been shaft drive all and their dogs would have been bleeting "copy of TC3 / YOK and PRO4 " blah blah blah.

What I really hope is that schumacher offer the car in 2 specs. Full pro and basic. At least this gives one a choice and a known cost. Anyone racing a current mission (at a competitive level) will have had to spend a shed load of cash upgrading the standard kit, and I'm not talking of making it pretty.

I do appreciate that car improvements evolve as the team drivers develop the car, but the top of the range (pro car) should be at "latest" spec right off the shelf.

Well this is my thoughts (feelings) anyway

[MattW]

Bryan, Interested to know what you feel the mission "needs" to be competative, and i assume you feel that it needs more spending on it than other cars.

[dhamblin]

Matt, do you know if the factory plan do do batches of the old style suspension pieces for those who may not convert to the new car when it comes out? Especially cosidering that they still produce the Sport chassis with the "old style" suspension.

Personally I am in a bit of a quandry as to what to get at Christmas now.

a) Do I get the KO Espirit II R radio?

b) Do I get some set-up tools e.g. the Hudy system?

c) Do I get the Mission 2?

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! :o :o

[MattW]

I don't have any specific info on this, but i would be very surprised if they run out, certainly in the near future. Put it this way - it i still possible to buy suspension bits from a car that ceased production in about 1995!!!

[steven252]

" I guess in a way loads of people are disappointed that the new car is not a shaft drive "

well if everyone makes shaft cars then there would be no choise of beltit will all be shaft, im quite glad that they have kept with the belts, as everyone elce has changed to shaft.
just my view
steven

[MarkB]

A question a page or two ago was why c-hubs would be better in sweeping corners. Seems to me the bottom of the suspension hub would be supported both ends, making it flex less. Fast corners lean a lot on te outside hub, and if that didn't flex or move then you'd get better grip.

Mind you my current Mission always goes well at tracks with sweeping corners, and that's running the current pivot ball hubs!

Bob - you are worringly accurate, and not the only person to have said that. Stick the motor out too far and it also become vulnerable - epsecially stock and 19-turn motors with their longer shafts.

I'm liking the idea of a "pro" version - question is would enough people pay the price to make that version worthwhile. My local shop is very keen on £99 Missions to sell to begginers, and doesn't think too many racers will buy a full on kit.

Wait an see Mark G - could be a full or partial prototype at a meeting before the end of the season.

Cheers
MarkB

[Ritz]

I'm also happy that Schumacher are still using belts, i've heard that a belt is smoother and more efficient?

I would definately like to see a pro version of their new car with all the alloy components, carbon fibre and titanium turnbuckles, as buying them all seperately costs a fortune!

[rice98w]

if they made a pro version i would buy it next spring!!! with the threaded shocks included, Ti hinge pins and turnbuckles etc etc etc, just to save me the hassle of buying it all!

i personally dont EDIT:like (CHEEKY BUGGERS!!!) shaft cars, the sound they make isnt desirable at all, much better to have a whisper than a shreeeeeeeeeeeek!! lol.

personally i really like the mission, and i have always liked shuey t.c cars, from the 99 pro to the mission. (both of which i still have) so for them to improve the car again means it must be good!

at my club (c.a.r.s.) there are about 5 mssions, about a million xxxs and another few tc3's, not alot else...the odd xray. anyway, my car is never slow, keeps up with everyone else easy. i can hardly fault the mission at all, and for shuey to improve it then i applaud them!

matt rice

[KRob]

i personally dont shaft cars, the sound they make isnt desirable at all, much better to have a whisper than a shreeeeeeeeeeeek!! lol.


Is it just me or does that sound a bit dodgy!!!

[marcoski]

LOL definately needs to insert a "like" in there somewhere ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[rice98w]

well its true i dont shaft cars! LOL

ROTFPIMP!! :D ;D :D ;D ;D

what a typo that was!

matt rice

[marcoski]

As a matter of interest, my TC3 (wash my mouth out for saying that here ;D ) never did and still doesn't shreeeeeeeeeek. I would say it is just as noisy as my Xray (more mouthwash)

[rice98w]

lol marcus...

all of the tc3's at my club dont sound anything like the belt drives there! our belt drives are always proper quiet, the shafts seem to spoil the rooms abience!!! LOL ;D

maybe its just that we have more experience meshing and building cars? who knows, but its certainly the case at my club that the shafts dont sound nice..

matt rice

[DA_cookie_monstA]

Maybe they are secret Tenth Technology fans, cloaking themselves in TC3's??? and deliberately meshing them incorrectly to set the hairs on the back of your neck going???

[rice98w]

LOL ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

:D
matt rice

[Ian s]

Another pic off another RC board:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=468232

[MarkB]

I'm amused we're into "spy shots" :D

So then KRob tell us about your shaft drive experience from the WLRC BTCC then... ;)

MarkB

[KRob]

My therapist says I shouldn't comment, but what the hell.

IT WAS PANTS :(

Actually, to be fair, after driving a TC3 to start with that didn't handle to m liking, then an HPI that also wasn't great. The other TC3 I ran in the final was actually quite good, but after Gary pranged it in his final :-[, he buckled the wheel so the tyres I used were not the best ::).

It was the first time I have used a shaft drive outside. I was considering one for next year, but I now think they don't really offer an advantage, and I will probably stick with a belt design.

But with the drastic drop in price of Missions, it means I probably can't get as much for mine if I sell it :(

[rice98w]

those roll bars remind me of jukka steenari's xx4, they were hand made, and they were joined to the wishbones using a turnbuckle similar to the one used on the centre of the missions front end...

so schumacher are ditching the normal roll centre kit then, and mving to a shock/roll centre shock mount thingy like on a tc3?

..hmmmm.....interesting..... ::)

matt rice

[steven252]

they have done that on the tamiya ta04 trf and the trf414

steven

[Tim Branigan]

Definately want one. Just hope they make one with threaded shocks and alloy mounts as standard. It just makes life that much easier.

[jason]

Matt,

If you look carefully at the photo on the Schumacher site it seem that the front roll centre mod is fitted to the prototype the alloy blocks indicate that. But with a turn buckle top link arrangement we should get the option to shorten the top wishbone as well as alter the height of the pivot point. We can only lower the pin at the moment to adjust the roll centre.

Jason

[Barry_Hughes]

Definately want one. Just hope they make one with threaded shocks and alloy mounts as standard. It just makes life that much easier.


Threaded shocks included!, interestingly a lot of team drivers use the standard shock bodies.

It is far easier using the shims than the threaded bodies.

And yes I have threaded ones on my Mission!!!!!!

To Bryan.

You do not need to spend shed loads of money to be competitive. Alloy housings are nice but not totally needed.

The only real additions to the standard kit are the roll centre kit £19, RW diff pulleys £9 each and grey belts if you are racing stock!

Hardly shed loads.

[Tim Branigan]

NO. It is far easier to use threaded shocks. You just need to know how to mark them up. Otherwise we would not have wasted money in F1 making threaded shock bodies. (or any other kind of racing)

so how should we mark them tim?

please reply asap as i wanna know before tomorrows STCC WLRC....lol cheers

[dhamblin]

I have just seen some pics of the prototypes at the Euro's and I have to say that the quality of the lower arms leaves a lot to be desired .... then again it is only a prototype! ;D

It also looks as though the layshaft pully is made of the same material as the RW diffs.

[Tim Branigan]

If, as on a TC3, there is a hex nut at the top with a paint pen mark the adjuster in line with a point of the nut. Now quickly and easily you can make identical adjustments to each shock by turning the adjuster 1/6th of a turn at a time. A lot more finer adjustments than spacers. If you don,t have a hex at the top then you need to make a datum marks on the damper body to achieve the same result.

[MattW]

dh - I'm guessing you've seen the pics on the orion site?? What is wrong with those lower wisbones??

[DA_cookie_monstA]

I got threaded shock bodies on my, shhhh... XXXS, and I HATE them, I would MUCH rather have a normal set of shock spring clips, then you know that EACH shock spring has been spaced the same, and all you got to do when you build the shocks is to ensure they are the same length.

Sometimes, manufacturers bring things out that ACTUALLY don't make the car ANY quicker, just make it a little more TRICK. On a sports motorbike, the rear shock is threaded for spring thension, on a tourer with twin shocks (very rare) they are stepped. As for the front forks, if they are adjustable, they are more often stepped so you can adjust both the same, otherwise you get wierd handling.

As for looking at the new tourer, they are probably finalising geamoetry and weight balance, so I don't think you can REALLY go looking at moulding quality at this time, and I think the chassis may be a little better when finished.

[rice98w]

dh - I'm guessing you've seen the pics on the orion site??


anyone got a link for that orion website with the schuey pics on? im looking around but cant seem to find them!

lol

matt rice

[DA_cookie_monstA]

http://www.teamorion.com/live/results-cars.asp?id=143

bout half way down mate

[rice98w]

ah got it, cheers mate

matt rice

[dhamblin]

MattW, well they just look a bit thin compared to the current ones, sorry to be nit picking but being a perfectionist at heart... ;)

Actually Matt, looking again at those pictures I can't help noticing that there are two cut outs for the spur gear in the upper deck, is this the "interesting area of testing" that the Schu USA guy referred to on rctech when asked about weight distribution?
i.e. you can have the main belt either side of the rear diff and move the batteries and motor away or closer to the centreline?

Alternatively that deck could just be used with the current car for testing...

[MattW]

You have to realise that when the current wishbone was first used in about 1997 the touring car scene was much less serious. These days most manufactures are building for pure racing. The classic example being the TC3 hinge pin. Smaller than many others, but prone to bending. I have no idea how strong these wishbones have been in testing. I suspect that it is safe to say that if they are found to be weak then i would think something will be done about it.

See what you are thinking about the top deck, it is only a prototype and your guess is as good as mine at the moment. It is quite normal to build much more adjustment into a prototype than you would actually have in a production car.

[dhamblin]

Ah there you have the advantage Matt, I have only been racing since 2000! ;D

I always find that the front wishbones on the Mission always break along the pivot pin end.

Ah! I just remembered a modification that I made on my Mission to do with the roll centre kit.
With the alloy blocks up front, even titanium pins bend easily during heavy impacts. This is due to them being held by only 1 screw so the block pivots around into the empty space where the steering blocks have been cut down along that cut out in them. So I have cut down the steering blocks less so that they support the alloy blocks; result is that my front hinge pins have not bent even in heavy crashes.
Could you mention this to the factory because I think this would be benficial on the new car, especially as it seems that the roll centre will be adjusted in the same way.

[MattW]

Again, don't read too much into what you see at the moment. The proto mission was very weak as it was done for ease of adjustment for testing.

[alexoutrim]

Does anybody have any rough estimate on how much the car will be?

[rice98w]

who knows!!!

for a PRO version maybe 299.99 LOL???!?!!!

we shall wait and see

matt rice

[bob burr]

Im sure Schumacher must owe me money for starting this thread. ;D

has any one know of any websites that are showing photos with more angles of the new car

[MattW]

Things are looking promising.

Teemu was out in his first competitive race in nearly a year at the Nordic Champs this past weekend, and he won!! with the prototype of the new car.

More details in the news section of the Schumacher site.

ok thanks Matt.I dont think the schumacher website gives enough info of photos...they tell use a lot but they keep it short and too the point...there has to be a website some were that has got more close up photos of the new mission!!! hope there is and that i find it. ;D

[MattW]

The most close up pictures that i have seen were on the Orion site with the Euros coverage.

There is no substitute for looking at the real car though ;)

yeah i no what you mean matt. Just want it to look at close up and see what it looks like and feel the new bearings.