Track/Kerb

[spmcc]

A number of comments have been made about the Snetterton Circuit both on the forum and now in one of the well known magazines and I think it's about time I set the record straight.
The Snetterton TRACK has not changed in any way whatsoever with regard to racing lines, actual track layouts or anything. What have changed are the islands, or to put it another way the places you're not supposed to race on. The kerbs, those nice raised red and white painted areas on the bends have not changed at all, they are exactly as there were when the track was first laid apart from the thickness of a couple of coats of paint. What have changed are the islands themselves. Yes we have built up the inside of the bends, BUT they are inside the original kerbs and should not come into play unless you are actually OFF the black stuff. They were put in for one reason and one reason only to stop people from cutting corners and hence cheating. It has always been said that Snetterton is/was an easy track to drive because if you got off line or couldn't make a corner you just took a shortcut across the island and rejoined the track. Now you can't. It now requires more skill and finesse to get round. I have irrefutable evidence that the lap times have not changed and at the Modified National this year a new lap record was set on what is now known as the Reedy layout. So the comment made in the magazine about not being able to use the kerbs is total rubbish.
Yes I know there are blind spots on 2 of the bends, these will be rectified before next summer and hopefully a lot earlier than that and the 2 islands just past the end of the main straight are over the top but these will also be altered.
We recently held the Tamiya Eurocup European finals with 140 drivers present from all over Europe and I made a special point of asking team managers and some of the drivers if they had any problems with the track and the answer from all was NO. Last weekend we held the final round of STCC with drivers of all abilities taking part, the comments I got back from drivers who had never driven the track before was that they had no problems. It would appear that it's the drivers who have driven the "old track" who experience the problems. One very well known driver who shall remain anonymous had all sorts of problems during practice on the Saturday at the Modified Nationals, his comment was he was so used to the old track that he appeared to be drawn towards the inside of the islands by some sort of magnet but admitted that it was all in his head as he knew that if he hit them he was well off line. On race day he did extremely well and had no problems all day.
For those detractors who still say that the built up parts of the islands are part of the track they are wrong, they are the infield. It's the black bit you race on. You don't hear the F1 drivers moaning about Monaco or the CART drivers going on about the road tracks they race on, they just realize that they have to stay within the confines of the track. The same now goes for Snetterton.

[Simon Smith]

Well said!

When i visited Snetterton for the First time, in July, the humps had recently been laid,and apat from afew "aircraft" impressions, i found them no problem whatsoever.

Its probably those drivers who prefer unfair racing, taking shortcuts etc, who are complaining.

[johnbull]

JON.

You know the old saying: You can please some of the people.......................

Son Josh and I raced at the National in August and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Snetterton, complete with mountains, is a great track. Don't touch it.

As you say, we are supposed to drive round the mountains, not through them.

We had our second meeting of the season yesterday. You can read my report on www.irmcc.com

Regards

Joe from sunny Malta.

[university_dave]

Yes I know there are blind spots on 2 of the bends, these will be rectified before next summer and hopefully a lot earlier than that and the 2 islands just past the end of the main straight are over the top but these will also be altered.

That's the only problem I have with the new track. Had great fun at the STCC, well, until the finals anyway. ::) :P

I found them a massive problem, i went down on saturday to get some practice in for the sunday and i spent half of saturday re-building my car becaese i took the second corner from the main straigh a little bit wide while flat out, hit the island and in to a metal dustbin that was plased in the middle of the track. I broke 2hubs,2wishbones (upper and lower) 2cvds and a bulk head. :'( kept me very busy tho.

[MattW]

It's like Jon says, yes they are inside the origional curbs, so the track hasn't actually changed. But as we all know, we all make mistakes and you are punished much harder than ever before for those mistakes. I smashed a couple of fixed front axles and a Steel CVD coupling :o

I found that. It was like my car was made out of soggy paper. I didnt even have to hit anything hard and a wishbone broke, Its mad

[johnbull]

Moral of the story........try sticking to the black stuff, and I don't mean Guiness!

Have fun.

Joe from sunny Malta.

I tried.............................but failed ::)

[johnbull]

If at first you don't succeed......................................

You know the rest.

Cheers

Joe from sunny Malta.

With that track it should be
If at first you dont succeed start fixing your car. Then go slower.lol

[Simon Smith]

If you hit one of the "mountains" (they're pretty high, had snow on top when i visited), then you know that your off-line.

To be critical, perhaps short grass islands would've been better, but the mountains do the job.

no matter what the islands are filled with, Snetterton is still a great venue

When you go up the islands the car goes out of range, they must be high :P

[Simon Smith]

hehehe! ;D

I hear that if you hit one oif the mountains in the right place, you can land on the A11!!!!!! :o

just joking Jon, i Personally like the mountains

Yeah its true. lol .Maybe with 2 brushless motors in a emax.......if your lucky :P

[Simon Smith]

Has anybody read the December issue of Racer mag?
Heres as quote from the Modifid report on pg94

"the smartly painted track could have been better still if an overly enthusiastic Bob the Builder not decided to ceate norfolks very own mountain range" - fair comment, they are perhaps alittle bit large, and close to the kerbs

"Stray off line and the car would be launched at speed" - hmm, someones getting observant, but im wondering just how off line these drivers were? you have to b a country mile off the racing line to hit the lumps!


So, im getting the impression that Racer are putting down the Snetterton track, and trying to put people off going to what is a superb venue. i thought Racer were trying to promote the tracks around the U.k, not diss them.
To be fair, I can se where they cam from, the lumps are maybe alittle close to the kerbs, which can make clipping a kerb alittle risky, but if they stop people taking short cuts, then they certainly seem to work!
personally, i think a slightly undulating astroturf, or short grass wouldve been better, realism wise.

Oh, and Jon, the guys at Racer can't spell your name, you've got an "h" in it.! (tut tut) ;)

[spmcc]

Simon, I knew this was coming, hence the start of this thread in the first place.
If my ugly face and name spelt wrongly can keep Snetterton awareness going I really don't mine. All I want is for racers to come along and enjoy themselves. DON'T BE PUT OFF BY WHAT YOU READ IN THE MAGS. I spoke again today with the driver I mentioned in the original statement who had trouble with the "extras" and once again he stated that if you've never driven the track before you except it for what it now is. If you had raced on the "old" track yes the "extras" are a bit foreboding, but by taking it easy for a couple of laps and realising nothing has really changed you can then put the hammer down again. Treat it like learning a new track and don't go haring off as soon as you get on the track.
As the report says Andy Moore set a new track record. Enough said.

[johnbull]

Hi friends. greetings from Malta.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about.

Of all the tracks we have race on, both locally in Malta, in the UK, and in Italy, Snetterton and Mendip take our vote as the best yet.

If you think the mountains at Snetterton are car wreckers, what do you say about the wooden beams at Mendip, or Filfla at West London.

Jon, please, DON'T TOUCH IT.

Regards

Joe from sunny Malta.

[Simon Smith]

watching the racing at Snetterton today, I noticed that not many people were hitting the bumps, and when they did, nothing broke, not even the hardest of crashes damaged a car. This makes me wonder 2 things

1) how fast are these damned cars going????
2)what on earth have these national drivers dun to their cars to make them so weak? Do they have paper suspension arms and stuff?

People should shut up, and realise that Snetterton hasnt changedm not one bit. Like I said to Jon today, those who complain are those who probably take short cuts and like to miss chunks out should they make a mistake.


by the way Jon, a pleasure to meet you. Wish I was old enough to drive, I'd cetainly come up and help you out with the track.

watching the racing at Snetterton today, I noticed that not many people were hitting the bumps, and when they did, nothing broke, not even the hardest of crashes damaged a car. This makes me wonder 2 things

1) how fast are these damned cars going????
2)what on earth have these national drivers dun to their cars to make them so weak? Do they have paper suspension arms and stuff?

People should shut up, and realise that Snetterton hasnt changedm not one bit. Like I said to Jon today, those who complain are those who probably take short cuts and like to miss chunks out should they make a mistake.

The track hasnt changed a bit!!!! Are you blind? I know that there are massive mounds on the track and are not in the racing line but when you do make a mistake you pay for it. When the track was flat you could afford to make a mistake like taking a corner to late but now if you do that the chances are its your race over. It wasnt just my car that was breaking. Near enough every single person that was practicing that day broke serios parts on there car. Even on the race day. Obviosly the crashes you saw the drivers was very lucky that they didnt break any parts.

[Simon Smith]

what im trying to say is that Snetterton hasnt changed, sure, the Island have, and Jon admits that there are problems that need sorting, blind spots, the odd mount that needs its severity sorting out, but dont we all learn from our mistakes?

All that is really needed is alittle more care, concentration, and control. Hell, ive been over them a fair amount, and Im always breaking stuff, but I didnt break anything at Snetterton.

Jon has afew ideas on how to stop the cars flying as well, Dont know how yet, but plans are afoot.

How about take the islands out. Then put grass where the track wont be going. That way if you cut the track your car wont move and wont break because it wont be flying through the air. They do it at some tracks i have seen.

[MattW]

I can think of at least one very good reason. Grass centre islands require much more work from somebody.........

[Simon Smith]

Mark, i agree with you on the grass idea, I had been thinking that myself, it would give the track a more realistic look. But like mattW said, it'll require more maintenance, and look how many "club" members are willing to help Jon at the track?

Today, there were suppose to be 30+ drivers, there were 7 of them, and its happening on a fairly recent basis.

I suppose a longer type of Astroturf would be another idea, alot less maintenance, and it would do the same job.

[spmcc]

You really do like to winge and moan, don't you Mr Lambert. From my recollection you have actually only raced at Snetterton once. It takes time to learn any track and blasting around flat out from lap one does not constitute learning a track. You stated earlier that you did considerable damage to your car on the Saturday PRACTICE. That's the whole point of practice is to learn the track, not spend all day rebuilding your car because you didn't have the sense to learn the track first. As for removing the work that was done, NOT A CHANCE, I'll restate yet again, yes there are some places that have to be sorted, they will get done. If you want to come along and help with that work you're more than welcome, but I suspect that you'll stay away and just keep harping on about something you actually know very little about. There were a few more than that in the end Simon.
As an aside nobody broke anything on the "extras".

[Simon Smith]

There were a few more than that in the end Simon.


ah, attack of the late comers? Or people that were hiding in the portacabin hut pit things, where it was warmer then outside!!
I must say that you've got it nice Jon, a good view of the track, the computer screens,m plenty of space, and a very good heater!!!!! ;D

come to think of it, i Think i counted 10 drivers, but Im not sure, drivers do tend to do the "disappearing act" once in a while dont they! Oh, and one more thig Jon, you will definaltly be seeing me there next year (have to wait until I can drive 1/1 scale cars first), along with other members of my humble team.

[Terry]

I think it's fair to say that nobody likes a broken car, and while I do agree that corner cutting should not be possible I do not agree that a track (its kerbs, markers or infield) should be responsible as far as possible for causing damage to cars. A thoughtful approach (from a drivers perspective) should be adopted when a track is designed and built. When greeted with 'monster kerbs', 'fatal armco' or 'launch-pad mounds' etc at a track I'm put off before I even start racing, or at the very least I get very nervous and can't relax when I'm driving like I should be able to. Racing should be fun not perilous and exciting not hazardous!!

I helped design and build the track at Barham (the 'secret' track hidden away in deepest Kent) and I for one was very pleased when drivers at the BRCA Stock National and STCC meeting commented on how much they liked the track. All the club organisers took it as a big compliment. We must have done something right!! Far be it for me to criticise other clubs track layouts or their designers motives (and if they were in a 'normal' state of mind???) behind some of the more notable idiosyncrasies to be found on tracks. I've concluded that tracks with 'nasties' have most times been designed and built by non drivers who mean well but don't appreciate the drivers perspective (and may never even have stood on the rostrum) or with a desire to impose their will (you WILL drive where I want you to) or both, have come up with some interesting track features. Many of the tracks have character because of their 'features' and would be less exciting to drive without them. My all time worst experience was at the Tamworth track racing a PRO 10 at a BRCA National where there were giant size pebbles set in concrete as a car (un)friendly infield, absolutely NO cheating at this track!! It was equally lethal for the cars and for the marshals!! (interesting what the Health & Safety people would think?). I assure you at this track I was scared witless and not for the usual reason that PRO 10's are ballistically fast, but that on every lap one slight error or accident could result in my car being written off. Car breaking circuits only benefit those who sell car spares. Given the choice I prefer Spa every time, you can keep Monaco and the other street circuits!!

I've never been to Snetterton, but drivers from Barham who raced at the STCC round did comment on the 'mounds' and the need to avoid them at all costs. I have found that to have raced on a track one year and return a year later to find it 'modified' and more dangerous does come as a bit of a shock. Sometimes electric/ic cars of different scales use a track and have to be accommodated and this requires more hefty barriers etc, this I accept, but potential 'car-killer' additions I have a problem with. At Barham we have kerbs you can run over without serious consequences and mostly grass and astroturf infield. The 'anti-cheating' features we have is a low rounded concrete edging that upsets a car enough to negate any possible advantage gained by driving over it. Referees are also helpful to deter would-be cheats. I say why should everyone suffer because of the cheats??

In my view the object is to minimise potential damage to cars from the track markers and barriers because it's not just cheats that end up coming off worse, but innocent victims of accidents who may simply make a mistake or whos cars get nudged or knocked off track and as a result their car suffers damage. Knowing my luck that would be me. IMHO there are enough unhappy racers without adding to them by having car killing features (especially ones that cause blind spots). I think racing should be safe for cars and for drivers, and most all racing should be fun!!

[johnbull]

Hi friends. greetings from Malta.

This one gets more exciting every day!

So people are complaining about the only mountains in Norfolk. Others feel that replacing the mountains with grass would be too costly to maintain.

Here's my suggestion. GRAVEL TRAPS. Just like they have in Formula 1. And just to make it all more real, if you can't drive out of it under your own steam, you are out! This is with one exception of course. If you drive a red car made in Italy you may have outside help. Just like F1!

The gravel won't break the cars, but I suspect that given the choice between the mountains and the gravel traps, most will opt for the former.

Might be worth a try Jon, just to see peoples' reactions.

Regards

Joe from sunny Malta.

[spmcc]

Guess whose going to have to sweep the gravel back into the traps after each race. ME of course because nobody else would even think of doing it yet alone do it. Then there would be the complaints of stones getting caught in the belts or in the steering. Joe I'm on a hiding to nothing here. I think i'll just curl up in a ball and spend the rest of my life knitting teapot covers.

[LisaKeen]

Right Ill have my say now, I have raced this track many times both without and with the Alps :D and still fined it a great track, the first time I raced with the hills I admit I did have problems mainly because I had setup problems and was over driving a car which wasn't set up, this was my problem not the hills fault. When I raced there for the STCC final round I had a superb day and only hit one hill once which caused no damage and I carried on. Frankly when racing I didn't even think about the hills, and just concentrating on driving the car. I found from myself and some other drivers I know the best thing to do is forget about the hill or just think of them not being there. I for one think they should stay, they do create that bit of interest.

As for alternatives gravel is a nice idea but I agre with Jon the mes they would cause we be horrendous its bad enough when some stones have been kick on the track at the end of the straight from the edge and your car launches of one. Grass is a nice idea but if its dry doesn't really slow down the car if your going quick enough, I had a bad experience at bedworth when a car shot sideways of the straight and came across the front of me going full chat down hill on the straight parallel and wiped me out. If an alternative is to be sough I did like the idea Stafford has by having a length of 2x2 timber attached to the track using a peg system, it gives you a chance to slow down the car before you hit the wood hard and brake something, and it stops you from cutting the track.

[Simon Smith]

well said andrew, well said.

Although I havent actually raced at Snetterton, I have done setup testing there, and the hills caused me no problems. As far as I'm concerned, they are not there, Im too busy concentrating on driving the car, getting the right lines into the corners, and having fun

[Terry]

Jon, don't do it!! The world of rc racing needs you!! Teapot covers can wait till you retire ;D

Without dedicated people like you the racing wouldn't happen and then where would we be ???

I have to admit the majority of those that raced at your STCC round all enjoyed themselves and liked the track, but just weren't too keen on the 'humps' (mainly those that hit them!). I've experienced these things myself (unhappy racers not your humps), you try your best and people moan. You can't please all the people all of the time. You can never win :-

It makes me smile when even in full size F1 under the gaze of a tv audience of millions we have seen hasty track modifications put in place that some drivers love and some hate. Despite a multi-million budget they still can't please everyone. If you want a quiet life don't be a race organiser that's my best advice!! ;)

[grant]

SMMCC:

I'm not quite sure where you got your information on regarding the new kerbs at Snett.

I saw the track a short while ago and it is clear you have been misled regarding some of the kerbs placements. You clearly said that all the new kerbs were within the previous "white lines" marking the edge of the islands. Perhaps you should consult with the person who put the kerbs in at Snett and i'm sure thy will correct you and say that there a a number of places where the new kerbs extend out past the previous kerbing.

[marcoski]

Hmmm methinks you need to do a little research Grant, SMMCC and snett are one and the same, he most likely put the kerbs in himself....

[spmcc]

No comment apart from ???.

Jon Guest Snetterton Market Model Car Club

[Andy Oldman]

::) lol ::)

[damo]

a big fat DOH !! there i think....

lol

;D ;D

[colin_jackson]

are the curbs going to go then???? ???

[Andy Oldman]

As for removing the work that was done, NOT A CHANCE, I'll restate yet again, yes there are some places that have to be sorted, they will get done.


from talking to jon a while ago my understanding is this
there are a couple of places where the curbs cause blind spots
these will be sorted the rest stays as is

[spmcc]

RIGHT for the umpteenth time THEY ARE NOT KERBS. THE RED AND WHITE STRIPS ARE KERBS. this subject is now CLOSED